!914 Twin HD Cannon ball request

[Chris Border MFG]

Oh great. Now everyone is speaking GREEK!!!!

[Barry Brown]

Is the manual for that machine in Japanese?

[Slojo]

Cory
Hang in there we are about to come to a boil on this frame progress.
Barry
The manuals for this Okuma machine are printed in Jenglish a near impossible language to comprehend. Jengish was formed during the unusual process of marriage between the 51st state, Japan and the USA.
Perhaps I went overboard with yesterday’s discussion. That was all that could be reported on for yesterday. These are the thing that I do to build bikes and this forum is where my process and progress are reported. With a little success today the frame rails will be cut and I will be one step further in finishing the protracted process of frame repair.
Chris
I thought we were speaking Latin as our second language? You mentioned Greek did you mean Geek?
Lonnie
Continue organizing this M/C Cannonball event you are doing a great job. Besides do you really want to get tangled up in this process?
Joe 12-29-2009

[Slojo]

Numb-ers.....or my brain hurts

An attempt was made to cut the oval tapered rear frame rail today. The math was good however the equation was not. In other words the wrong format was applied. A corrected format is now ready to be input into the machine control for tomorrow’s testing. This is taking way to long I probably should have consulted someone with a CAD system to generate the tool path. There is something about doing it yourself that keeps me pushing forward on this issue.
Joe 12-29-2009

[c.o.]

I'll say this for you Joe...... you are one dedicated individual! Adversity only seems to spur you on with more ferver.... your enthusiasm is inspiring! Just do me a favor and don't start posting in Jenglish...... I thought the math was confusing...... a foreign language will lose me for sure!

[Slojo]

Adversity? Cory you have it all wrong it’s called obstinate persistence in other words “hard headed”. Sometimes I just don’t know when to give up. There is not a strike count here.
I am heading to the barn (my nightmare as I have called it) this morning to test my new equations. I am sure things will work this time, although maybe I should cross my fingers or something.
Each contour has two variables that must be tied together with every move. These variables must be solved simultaneously. The previous attempts did not take that into perspective.
Joe

[c.o.]

I see.."hard headed" you say? I've been called that by family members but I don't think my heads is as hard as yours. Your still inspiring man! Maybe I'm just "pig headed"? I'll cross my fingers for you as well but for some reason I don't think you need it........

[gary.h]

Adversity? Cory you have it all wrong it’s called obstinate persistence in other words “hard headed”. Sometimes I just don’t know when to give up. There is not a strike count here.
I am heading to the barn (my nightmare as I have called it) this morning to test my new equations. I am sure things will work this time, although maybe I should cross my fingers or something.
Each contour has two variables that must be tied together with every move. These variables must be solved simultaneously. The previous attempts did not take that into perspective.
Joe

just a mere hurdle to hop over joe,that fine machine will be kicken ass down the road before we know it..all the best eh!

[Barry Brown]

Hey Joe, This long distance test of 100 year old machinery is making me wonder how big a factor metal fatigue will be. Are you going to magnaflux everything ? What components inside the engine will be new? Obviously pistons, valves and guides but what about new flywheels and rods? What about more effective oiling? Even though I am not participating I am really eager to see how this whole thing plays out. This could offer the best publicity our hobby has ever had.
Keep up the good work Joe, soon an entire country may be watching you!

[jurassic]

[chas]

philosophy?

As you said, inspect with a fine tooth comb. You all may rest assured Joe will be a 'fly with a magnifying glass' looking over everything. The cases are my main concern. Many fatigue cycles, yes and it is an Al alloy - with no fatigue endurance limit..... But the '16 was made with WW I oriented robustness.

Too bad the engineering records no long exist. Alas H-D took all of them on the 4th floor, racked 4-5 rows high, row after row of 'green bindered' engineering records, to the dump when it became independent. So all records are gone, only photos remain. When a project test engineer on Juneau, I use to peruse them, in order to 'look back'.

As Joe stated: "There is not a strike count here." That is what is what the 1960's UP's Press On Regardless rallies represented: will & technical obsession. One obsessed, must press on regardless. Will overcomes sloth. With history, thought process, measurements, liberally dosed with a will. (May I use the word "liberal" here Joe?)

Yin and yang. There I go again, speaking gobblidy-****.

[Eddie G]

Bikesexual

Joe, I've been out of town for a few days & just read your reply. I WAS ASKING A QUESTION NOT OFFERING A SERVICE.
I don't have a problem with fanning the fires of the Indian & Hardly wars. I am of the opinion that it doesn't make a crap what name is on the tank as long as I like it. Most people don't get this but it sure is fun riding & wrenching on different bikes.

I was not talking about pacing your Harley with an Indian (like we have been for the past 104yrs) But I could with my Velocette or one of My B.S.A.'s or the Vincent Black Shadow i'm currently working on. I guess a XR650 OR A GL1800 would be out of the question also.

I guess I do agree that keeping the gene pool as pure as possible is the right thing to do. No offense is taken or inferred, just a little fun for us Southerners while we suffer through the cold days ( anything below 40degs )of Winter.

Looking forward to the continuing saga.

Eddie
Dixie chapter
Sunshine chapter
Blueridge chapter

[HarleyCreation]

Too bad the engineering records no long exist. Alas H-D took all of them on the 4th floor, racked 4-5 rows high, row after row of 'green bindered' engineering records, to the dump when it became independent. So all records are gone, only photos remain. When a project test engineer on Juneau, I use to peruse them, in order to 'look back'.

That's very interesting to hear early engineering records survived past the AMF era (if I read you right) only to be lost later on.

Can you recall what was the earliest material you ever saw there? Anything go back before 1910? Before 1908? How about racing engines and proto stuff that was never produced?

[Eddie G]

Carl
Charlie is a good old friend giving me a tough time because he can.
Today I spent in the books learning how to operate the four axis function mainly Y axis (XYZ AND C). The C axis is a rotary axis that revolves around the Z axis. Once under way for this operation only two axis are in use during the cutting mode Y and Z, X and C are for positioning only. Y axis has several restrictions prohibiting it from being operated in a usual fashion such as X and Z. Studying paid off, after inputting a short program a simulation test cut with the Y axis proved encouraging.
Next is to incorporate cutter radius compensation. This simplifies programming and gives control to the machine operator to adjust for cutter radius.
After the cutter comp. issue is put to rest an additional operation for the first radius of the four separate oval forms is ready to be tested this math required a little time to develop. The machine has an option called “User Task Two”. The option allows for math functions to be incorporated into the part program allowing the machine to re-program itself using equations, variables, trigonometry and algebraic functions as it completes its previous task. With this function I think I can develop a short program in house to form this complex shape with minimal data input.
The four radiuses being formed are actually two radiuses in opposing quadrants. This will simplify the programming.
Joe

Hey Joe English only please.

[Slojo]

Gary
The mere hurdle you speak of has now blossomed into an obsession. Four days worth of work and still I have no success on machining this frame rail. Perhaps what is needed is some professional help. Either someone with a CAD system or a shrink I am not sure which. Probably the latter my brain hurts.
Barry
I have not mentioned much about the motor yet, that will come as progress allows it to. Right now the chassis is all that is on my mind. You bring up some fine points and certainly I have given thought to many of your issues. The time will come soon where the motor will be the focus. Endurance will be the primary issue performance secondary as I see it now. Although done properly Endurance and performance go hand in hand. To be continued …
Lonnie
Another great 14 photo thanks again, they are good reference material please keep them coming.
Charlie
When you said “One obsessed, must press on regardless” you nailed me. Also you asked “(May I use the word "liberal" here Joe?)” Of course you may just be careful of context. You will find no word Nazi here.
Eddie
Good to have you back. Some of my best times ridding have been on vintage bikes with Indian riders. I look forward to more of that. I also am a connoisseur of fine motorcycles of assorted brands, just no Indians. You said, “I was not talking about pacing your Harley with an Indian (like we have been for the past 104yrs)” Ouch that hurts, funny however.
My neighbor has a couple of the absolutely finest Velos on the planet, they are real cool bikes. Vincents hum I have a love hate relationship with those bikes. Love to own one hate to pay for it.
By the way, the term “Bikesexual” is my term devolved to describe those who have both Harleys and Indians in a Wig Wam “Hogs” belong in the barn. The term does not apply to unification of other brands of bikes.
Another one of my terms that would apply to this conversation is “Motorsicklitis”. This term describes the affliction that one gets when the need for a motorsickle fix becomes overwhelming. Motorsicklitis affect many of us in peculiar ways. Some with the affliction chose to ride tens of thousands of miles a year while others want to go 400 miles per hour on salt. Still others shoot out of the bleach box on their way to 250 mile per hour quarter mile times. While those wild enough will do back flips or 100 yard long jumps while ridding their well developed bikes. Eddie, how about those people who travel around the world on motorsickls just because it was there. I could go on but the fact is most of us here have the Virus and it is in-curable. Yes I am happy to report Motorsicklitis is terminal. Brand of bike is not an issue just a point of light hearted entertainment.
It is 25 degrees out my drive way is a quarter-mile slab of curvy downhill ice , this is not conducive to ridding. So building this bike is the next best treatment for motorsicklitis.
By the way Eddie I have been speaking English for about 50 years and struggle with the language enough, another language is not in the cards for me either.

Joe