!914 Twin HD Cannon ball request

[Slojo]

Thanks Gary
It has been difficult the last week trying all I had to make good. Organizational skills were pinnacle in this program as many things are occurring at any given point. That and the understanding of what is actually taking place during the profiling of the part.
The radial projection of each stream line (150 cutter-paths) starts out as a linear path with a radial origin and termination point. Then it transforms into a linear path with a helical twist and termination point until the operation reaches an axis intercept. At this point the cut becomes a linear path with a radial origin and termination point once again (two axis path). An actual three axis cutter path takes place during the profile. This is why the cutter compensation could not function, the control is not capable of compensating for a true three axis profile.
Ultimately the entire program required about 120 lines of information (compact yet powerful program). If the program were generated by a CAD system my machine would not store the amount of information necessary and a DNC option would be require to “spoon feed the information as required”. For this reason outside assistance although offered (Thank you Lonnie and Chad) was not a plausible option.
I devolved this program to be universal in producing this type of tapered oval rail. With little modification different size fork and frame rails can be produced by changing about ten variables.
Joe

[Barry Brown]

As sophisticated as your machine appears to us mortals, how many years behind what is today considered state of the art would it be? I assume this Japanese machine was state of the art at one time. How long before the Chinese are the tops?

[Jerry Wieland]

Barry I agree - and then I wonder how the original 4 founders did it with a hammer and a file. How'd they ever get it built in the first place.

BTW I love this chat because it is what it seems every one of my bikes need - lots of blood sweat and tears.

Jerry

[rwm]

that machine is bigger then the original shed.

[Eddie G]

Joe, I noticed that in the Barber Museum shop they have Haas machines. Since a drill press is at the upper limits of my
ability, I was wondering how they compare to the brand you are using?
Do you think you will have it at Eustis?

JEG
7710

[Slojo]

Barry
The Okuma machine I am using to produce the frame rails is about eight years old. It has an E-100 series control, already out dated by two newer Okuma controls. This control still has a 3.5 inch disc drive for storage of part programs and other information. I believe the machine itself is still a current model. As for the Chinese, well I have no crystal ball to answer your question. I am not sure what to think about that other than we have given away our manufacturing industry to the rest of the world leaving us to produce ……????? Cow manure?
Jerry
To a large extent as it is today the original founders purchased much of what they needed to produce the earliest Harleys as I see it. As far as the blood sweat and tears goes, yes I have spilt some blood although in this weather we are having the sweat has been kept to a minimum. The tears nearly came a couple days ago when I was struggling with this machine control. Fortunately, walking away from the problem and focusing on something else prevented any mental catastrophe.
Rob
You may be right, if so not by much. The machine takes about the same floor space as a full size Ford van. Now that you mention it, today I was sitting back watching the machine produce a second frame rail when next to me was my first tool box stack I purchased when I was about nineteen years old. That box at the time seemed like it would hold all the tools in the world. Today my tool box is about three thousand square feet and crowded.
Eddie
The Barber restoration shop is first class. At one time it was my intention to have the premier motorcycle restoration facility in the country. I gathered the tools, equipment and built this building. Then for years I fought with the corrupt township and even more corrupt circuit court judge over a technical battle. During those dark years of court motorcycle restoration and customizing became fashionable. Shops like Barber and Jesse James popped up everywhere.
The Haas machine is a U.S. built machine used throughout our industries. Our country years ago quit making serious industrial equipment. Then companies like Hass and Fadal came around and built affordable machines for the masses. Much like the Harley Davidson founders did back in the day. As good as these machines are sorry to say, they are not built like the Japanese built Okuma’s. The Okuma machine is a top shelf machine. I have worked with Okuma’s since 1980 and have become a specialist in the field servicing them. Yes perhaps I am a little partial but pound for pound an Okuma will out run and outperform our indigenous machines. It is the way of the times not our capabilities… Politics.
Eustis, it was my original intention to have the 1914 cannonballer ready for Eustis. That has changed with the difficulties on the frame and the short coming of cylinders. Perhaps the first showing will be Oley with some good luck. To rush this project along will be a certain mistake. Careful preparation is the pinnacle of this build. This is why the frame is still in process I am not taking any chances or fooling around here.
Joe

[HarleyCreation]

Remember, the founders of H-D had the resources of the Milwaukee Road railshops pretty much at their disposal on the sly ("government work") where entire locomotives were built from scratch. Older brother Bill Davidson was a foreman there. Even Willie G.'s dad told me that his suspicion was that much of the early bikes were built or came from there.

That huge railshop complex stood abandoned below the 35th St. viaduct in Milwaukee until just a few years ago and were very exciting to explore (if you ignored the keep out signs and hopped the fence like we did.).

Barry I agree - and then I wonder how the original 4 founders did it with a hammer and a file. How'd they ever get it built in the first place.

BTW I love this chat because it is what it seems every one of my bikes need - lots of blood sweat and tears.

Jerry

[Slojo]

“Remember, the founders of H-D had the resources of the Milwaukee Road railshops pretty much at their disposal on the sly ("government work") where entire locomotives were built from scratch. Older brother Bill Davidson was a foreman there. Even Willie G.'s dad told me that his suspicion was that much of the early bikes were built or came from there”.

Herb
I know the potential exists of bikes having parts machined at the rail road shop. My reference of outsourcing was to the items such as frame rails handle bars fenders rims tires pedals etc…I have read literature from the time where catalog sales included generic cast cylinders. The founders may have purchased the first cylinders. Other manufactures have motors that look near identical to Harleys. A friend of mine Bob who you have met had a 1905 NSU that looked near identical to the early strap tank Harleys.
Joe

[Eddie G]

Thats pretty much what i thought the answer would be. It seems if an American made object that has the greatest and latest it is a rebadged import and sold as an american product . Not that I am agreeing to this practice, but more that we have a globeable economy. Not to mention that if there are any so called hazardous materials, waste, or processes in the manufacturing process it will be carried out in a 3rd world country. We haven't made a TV in America in about 15 to 20 yrs. Not even considering the disparity of wages.

Too bad about Eustis though. I was hoping to see it there.

JEG
Dixie Chapter
Sunshine Chapter
Blueridge Chapter

[Slojo]

Progress has returned

When this project started the frame was more imagination than reality as the rest of the bike. With countless hours of deliberation on frame construction a decision was made to build and square the pedal bracket to the frame and disregard the rest of the frames tail section. Inspections confirm there was major misalignment on the two lower rear frame rails. I knew the rails were in need of repair and misaligned but did not foresee complete replacement as an option.
After spending the last three or four weeks developing a process to build new frame rails the decision was made to remove the entire set of lower rear frame rails and install the new and improved ones. So out comes the abrasive cutoff wheel and off with the rear frame assembly directly behind the pedal bracket.
The frame was then fixture into the machining center and aligned to the machine axis. At this point a closer inspection revealed what was previously determined. The original quality of this section of the frame, to be polite was not up to my standards.
The set up allowed me to remove the original tubing directly below the pedal bracket so the new frame rails could be installed in proper alignment. Next a longer boring bar will need to be set up so the lower or forward frame bracket can be reached for the same process. This will allow the new frame rails to fit with a few thou. clearance permitting the silver solder the space needed to flow into the joint. Once again, Cory will post some photos demonstrating the previously described process taken place today.
Joe 1-11 2010

[Buzz Kanter]

Joe, thanks for the call today and wishing you the best in getting this bike done right. I'm betting on you and look forward to riding with you in September.

[Slojo]

Thanks Buzz
I also look forward to our upcoming ride of the year. I am sure all this work will be well worth the time spent. Continue moving forward on your 1915 project and we will see you soon.
Joe

[c.o.]

I know your not about tootin' your own horn Joe but holy cow you do nice work!

[Slojo]

During preparations for the new rear frame rails the entire remnants of the original rails first must be removed. Found inside the frame tubes and castings was a non-concentric reinforcement sleeve brazed into the tube. There was also puddles of braze overflow in the “frame casting cups” where the tubes are inserted in the frame. This indicates the original weld was performed while the frame was vertical with the axel plate on the top side and steering head down. The interrupted material has caused a little difficulty in removing. Modified tooling was made to remove the steel and brass overflow.
Ups showed today and brought a remanufactured muffler rear casting from Willis Garage. Jeff does a great job making these castings from wax to steel, investment castings. Following are photos of the modified boring bar to fit this tight frame opening. Also as an accomplice to remove the uneven material was a modified drill with a center/web thinning near flat point grind to allow the drill to stay on center and remove most of the material on its own.
Joe 1-13-2010

[c.o.]