!914 Twin HD Cannon ball request

[Slojo]

YES my first order. Now where do I secure funding? Tom you can place the very first order here.
Joe

[HarleyCreation]

2013 "Gray Ghost" Model

Herb
This article is due to your insistence of me posting a parts request on this forum. Those who don't like the article sorry blame Herb.

Joe, I'll take all the blame -- or credit -- it's an honor. You accomplished things few of us even dream of.

I built my Gray Ghost in about 11 months, HD should be able to do the same in double that ok triple. I would be excited to see a slender Gray Ghost minimalist bike produced by the Motor Company. I will get with Willie right away.

The bike will require an all new line. Sportster motors are two wide, big twins are too "Big", V rods are wet but a good foundation for technology. I can picture it already simple basic slender light weight (400 pounds wet MAX). A narrow crankcase with Lower displacement perhaps 66 cubic inches with over square dimensions (large pistons short stroke). A compact CV transmission, possibiliy built directly into the front and rear drive belt pulleys, rear pulley being a large diameter hoop attached to the rear wheel. A reintroduction of the springer fork (narrow). Long slender fuel tank with cutouts for clearance of the belt drive overhead cam four valve top end on a wider angle twin cylinder air cooled engine moderately tuned to bypass the need for water cooling and emissions issues. Rubber mounted engine for the ultimate smooth ride. Total redesign of a concealed rear suspension. Full length fenders (no banana peal front fender). A solo seat. Tall slender tires wire wheels with smooth profile rims. Simple gray paint with carmine and gold stripping, tank decals accented by bright nickel plating to commemorate the great bikes from the past. I could go on but this is a good foundation lets get started. Don't forget the exhaust cut out for those who need some noise some of the time. What you say Pedals? Hmm

I like it. I like the air-cooling, light weight, and smaller displacement. It's no secret that H-D needs to reinvent itself and your ideas combine the very old with the new. I also like the narrower tires and full fenders. Bringing it out as the "Gray Ghost" model (better copyright that name FAST before H-D grabs it!) and then expanding the line would be the way to go. I would like gear primary and final shaft instead but would accept belt, I guess. Sounds like your re-engineering of Bill Harley's original Gray Fellow with updates for modern conditions is something that the guys at the Motor Company today should not ignore. It's pretty clear that Mr. Harley was looking over your shoulder with a smile on his face. If only we could explain those lost 8 miles!

The three speeders had an advantage for sure (especially in the mountain switchbacks) but I did not notice much disadvantage for the strong running Ghost. The Ghost pulled well and challenged my abilities to balance the performance level to road challenges and conditions . Sliding around the switch backs in loose sandy gravel while watching closly, the white line and the cliff was certainly interesting. Op's I gave away future highlights. It was important to maintain RPM's/speed in the mountain switchbacks and not over run your equipment or abilities.

Joe

I'm amazed at how well the single-speed twin works in real road and weather conditions. I always thought they were totally outclassed by the 3-speed, but maybe not. Took more finesse or technique to ride one well, but you showed how it can done. It still boggles my mind that you're essentially taking off in 3rd gear but if it works, well, who I am to think otherwise? Pretty amazing how much the Harley-Davidson advanced in 10 short years, 1904-1914. It really was a cross-continent machine by the latter date. Too bad the single-speed twin era was so short-lived. Sounds like a very cool setup and the final link to the pioneer days.

[Slojo]

Joe, I'll take all the blame -- or credit -- it's an honor. You accomplished things few of us even dream of.



I like it. I like the air-cooling, light weight, and smaller displacement. It's no secret that H-D needs to reinvent itself and your ideas combine the very old with the new. I also like the narrower tires and full fenders. Bringing it out as the "Gray Ghost" model (better copyright that name FAST before H-D grabs it!) and then expanding the line would be the way to go. I would like gear primary and final shaft instead but would accept belt, I guess. Sounds like your re-engineering of Bill Harley's original Gray Fellow with updates for modern conditions is something that the guys at the Motor Company today should not ignore. It's pretty clear that Mr. Harley was looking over your shoulder with a smile on his face. If only we could explain those lost 8 miles!



I'm amazed at how well the single-speed twin works in real road and weather conditions. I always thought they were totally outclassed by the 3-speed, but maybe not. Took more finesse or technique to ride one well, but you showed how it can done. It still boggles my mind that you're essentially taking off in 3rd gear but if it works, well, who I am to think otherwise? Pretty amazing how much the Harley-Davidson advanced in 10 short years, 1904-1914. It really was a cross-continent machine by the latter date. Too bad the single-speed twin era was so short-lived. Sounds like a very cool setup and the final link to the pioneer days.

Herb
The lost eight miles, a failed magneto, The magneto still produced spark the actual problem, it was drowning on what it had expelled (flew the gew). I could have easily reset the timing, everything was apart flywheels were rotated for advance firing position all I had to do was slide the idler gear in and reassemble. If I took this course of action the magneto gear nut would have required over-torquing to prohibit slippage from excessive load while churning the tar like sealant. This may have caused a broken magneto shaft or perhaps a sheared pinion gear drive key or a broken pinion gear. I chose not to chance further damage. Besides at the time I was not mentally into the competition, I was recovering from the build. The following day was when I began focusing on the points competition, a little late.

"Took more finesse or technique to ride one well."
Herb, you nailed it both in the build and the riding.
Joe

[c.o.]

This is a quote from Joe. "R.I.P. Tailer My little soldier and best friend."

Sorry to hear about your loss. Tailer looked like he had a lot of character.

[rwm]

hardest trip of my life was a oneway vet trip

[4thcoast]

That Dog is not looking after that pan head. Look close he is keeping a eye on that nice looking KJ case behind the pan. Must have been one hell of a dog. I know my dog would have been proud to serve with him. There are days when your dog is the only one who can put up with all the shop time and not wonder if you are crazy.
Mark

[Slojo]

Tailer

The first photo above, Tailer's swollen face followed a day of his favorite sport without adult supervision. He latched on to a racoon near his size (45 pounds), Cindy told me he went an hour with it. Typically I put an end to such activities but I was out of town. He suffered only a slightly damaged ear and some permanent scars on his chest and forehead form that conflict, cosmetic damages that added to his character. He resembled Herman Munster (Frankenstein).

With the resurgence of Coyote in Michigan Tailer had his paws full, the Coyotes finally learned not to mess with him. Once he broke a Coyote's back and brought him back for me to see. For a while he was known as "Dances with Coyotes" by my neighbors. Several Coyotes would gang up on Tailer and find he was more than they could handle.

Tailer was a tough fellow who handled my small work cleaning up unwanted varmints around the cabin. Tailer patrolled 30 acres plus a little overspill keeping things safe for his buddies our cats and the neighbors. I once watched him run straight up a tree after a stray cat, he made it about 12 feet up before he fell like a rock. On the other hand Tailer befriended all my company including the UPS guy. Tailer never took after another "Pet" visitor. Designated the official greeter of my parties Tailer was always well liked by those who came in contact with him. Tailer stood guard for 14 1/2 years and made me proud.

Tailer acquired his name through way of his predecessor Rebel. Rebel's tail was docked at birth by the breeder. Tailer still had his tail the logical conclusion truck/Trucker, bike/Biker, tail/Tailer.

Tailer hung on to a rapidly fading life, long enough for his Cindy to come visit him. During dinner he walked out the door not to return. I found him lying peacefully in a pile of leaves, he was on his last surveillance mission and appeared to have stopped for a nap.

A proud respectable loyal American Pit Bull Terrier not at all what government and its lapdog news media would like to portray these dogs as. In time I will cautiously select another to fill the large (grand canyon size) void Tailer has left behind.

Joe

[HarleyCreation]

Sorry to hear about your dog. Sounds like he was a good comrade. They ain't kidding when they say "man's best friend." Sure seems that way.

[Tom Lovejoy]

Sorry for your loss Joe, sounds like he had a good life though. Get another one when your ready, their good for the soul.

[Rubone]

Sorry to hear about "Tailer" Joe. I feel for you. My wife and I have four dogs and three cats in our current herd. All rescue animals. They are the biggest part of our lives! We fondly recall each one that has gone before and cherish the ones we have with us. And I agree, pits are one of the best all around companions there are! Fine animals.
Robbie
and: Flye, Tahoe, Rhoda, Zelda, Dommi, Skeeter, and Opie!

[HarleyCreation]

Cool stuff

Herb
The lost eight miles, a failed magneto, The magneto still produced spark the actual problem, it was drowning on what it had expelled (flew the gew). I could have easily reset the timing, everything was apart flywheels were rotated for advance firing position all I had to do was slide the idler gear in and reassemble. If I took this course of action the magneto gear nut would have required over-torquing to prohibit slippage from excessive load while churning the tar like sealant. This may have caused a broken magneto shaft or perhaps a sheared pinion gear drive key or a broken pinion gear. I chose not to chance further damage. Besides at the time I was not mentally into the competition, I was recovering from the build. The following day was when I began focusing on the points competition, a little late.

Joe

Good info about the unfortunate magneto failure on the Gray Ghost®.

If you had to do Gray Ghost® over again would you consider replacing the mag with some kind of modern, total loss, ultra-reliable battery ignition system concealed inside the mag or elsewhere? Using some kind of ultra-high capacity "D" cells or something easily obtainable along the way? Maybe lith-ion rechargables or something like that?

I really like the idea of modern updates to the antique platform on the Gray Ghost® while keeping it looking stock, mostly. So long as Bill Harley would have approved, and I'm confident we know him well enough by now for that. Taking Bruce's '05 up on his grave that day showed that.

I'm guessing there were a few die-hard single-speed twin riders back in the teens. Looks like there must have been. The Factory offered until 1918 a "Model E" road bike: 16 hp twin with "direct-gear" (1 speed) and mag ignition.

Since the price was only $15 less than a 3-speed twin ($275 vs. 290), it actually cost MORE considering how much you didn't get!

Single-speed die-hards is an interesting notion and one that I had not thought about before. I wonder if it shows up in the literature?

Joe, was there any passing advantage with the single-speed once you got moving and didn't have to shift like the 3-speed riders? Could you overtake and pass them once off the line because you didn't have to shift but could just keep pouring on the coals?

That was one reason I liked the 3-speed over the 4-speed in my FLs. 2nd gear had an advantage because you could just about stop but then wind it way out and only shift once while the 4-speeders had to shift twice. That took time. Plus I'm lazy. On modern bikes you gotta shift about a hundred times -- so it seems. In those days we used to laugh at J a p bikes with 6 gears. How their ankles got hot like bent wire from shifting so much and fell off. Funny back then.

[Slojo]

Herb

I like the registered mark.

I thought of modifying the magneto with battery points ignition but decided not to. Rules called for stock ignition and carburetion, I complied within the prescribed guidelines. Just a proper magneto rebuild would do fine as proven by all the west coast guys success. Also, I knew magnetos were failing prior to the run so I bench tested the three I had and they worked for several days. From my experience it appears exhaust pipe heat caused magneto failures not condensers. The Ghost was not finished in sufficient time to research, locate and replace the magnetos with proven units.

Passing advantages, the three speeders are heavier and the Ghost ran well. The only time a serious performance run took place is when Steve Barber on his !915 rocketed past me merging onto the highway. Steve was tucked in tight for speed and pulled several bikes away from me when I decided to put him to the test. I rolled on about 3/4 throttle (never opened it up on the entire run) while sitting in touring mode, caught and passed Steve without difficulties. Steve paid me a good compliment after I shut down and allowed him to catch up. His comment was "its about time". Apparently he hadn't had a serious challenger. Steve was truly a speed demon on his good running !915.

The three speeders would have the Ghost up to thirty five MPH by then all bets were off. Truly, performance runs were kept to a minimum durability was on everybody's mind except Steve Barber and Vince Martinico. Vince on his Pope big single wanted to run everybody. I demonstrated a little Ghost power and told him he didn't want any more, save the motor Vince.

My decision, a !914 twin single speed was a perfect selection for my taste. Having to repeat the run I would make the same choice. Other than the magneto everything worked excellent. I did use the incorrect !915 and later engine sprocket. This caused a slight misalignment on the primary chain. I learned during the run that the !914 and earlier engine sprockets are offset further than !915 and latter. I am sure with the proper offset my primary chains would have lasted longer.

Joe

[rwm]

joe you say the mag flew the goo.what is the goo and why is in the mag? all the mags i have are just covered in it.to me it looks like some kind of pitch.do i need it? if so don't you think something can replace it.

[Slojo]

Rob
I am not a magneto armature rebuilder. I have been told the tar like substance is more than just an insulator it also assists in restraining the armature windings. The windings must be prohibited from abrading each other otherwise a "short" (current finding its way prematurely to ground or another adjacent winding) will occur.

The voltage inside an armature is high enough to jump around (uncontrolled arc) just as it arcs (controlled arc) across a spark plug gap. On a good magneto the arc can jump as much as an inch. This high voltage must be contained. Old magneto armature's tar like substance has a melting point of approximately 250 F. per Marks magnetos.

My current understanding is magneto rebuilders have changed to an epoxy encasement with 650 F degree melting point. This eliminates the need for the "tar" and resolves the flew the gew syndrome. Gew, Goo whatever.

The gew can be removed by warming the filled area to the melting point and carefully extracting it. I believe damage can occur from lack of care. Next is to rinse out the remaining gew to prepare the armature for epoxy encasement. Perhaps a good electrical contact cleaner will accomplish this task. Experience is your best tool. Finally you must replace the gew with a high temperature epoxy. If all is right you will have a reliable armature.

Once again: I am not a magneto armature rebuilder and Experience is your best tool. I hope this has helped you out and answered your questions.

Joe

[rwm]

got it joe.i'm gonna try a few things maybe super glue. or fireplace epoxy.that stuff holds brick upside down and takes alot of heat.maybe even fiberglass with mesh then you could shape it.i got quit a few mags laying around it's time i try something with them