!914 Twin HD Cannon ball request

[c.o.]

This is a quote from Joe. "R.I.P. Tailer My little soldier and best friend."

Sorry to hear about your loss. Tailer looked like he had a lot of character.

[Slojo]

Joe, I'll take all the blame -- or credit -- it's an honor. You accomplished things few of us even dream of.



I like it. I like the air-cooling, light weight, and smaller displacement. It's no secret that H-D needs to reinvent itself and your ideas combine the very old with the new. I also like the narrower tires and full fenders. Bringing it out as the "Gray Ghost" model (better copyright that name FAST before H-D grabs it!) and then expanding the line would be the way to go. I would like gear primary and final shaft instead but would accept belt, I guess. Sounds like your re-engineering of Bill Harley's original Gray Fellow with updates for modern conditions is something that the guys at the Motor Company today should not ignore. It's pretty clear that Mr. Harley was looking over your shoulder with a smile on his face. If only we could explain those lost 8 miles!



I'm amazed at how well the single-speed twin works in real road and weather conditions. I always thought they were totally outclassed by the 3-speed, but maybe not. Took more finesse or technique to ride one well, but you showed how it can done. It still boggles my mind that you're essentially taking off in 3rd gear but if it works, well, who I am to think otherwise? Pretty amazing how much the Harley-Davidson advanced in 10 short years, 1904-1914. It really was a cross-continent machine by the latter date. Too bad the single-speed twin era was so short-lived. Sounds like a very cool setup and the final link to the pioneer days.

Herb
The lost eight miles, a failed magneto, The magneto still produced spark the actual problem, it was drowning on what it had expelled (flew the gew). I could have easily reset the timing, everything was apart flywheels were rotated for advance firing position all I had to do was slide the idler gear in and reassemble. If I took this course of action the magneto gear nut would have required over-torquing to prohibit slippage from excessive load while churning the tar like sealant. This may have caused a broken magneto shaft or perhaps a sheared pinion gear drive key or a broken pinion gear. I chose not to chance further damage. Besides at the time I was not mentally into the competition, I was recovering from the build. The following day was when I began focusing on the points competition, a little late.

"Took more finesse or technique to ride one well."
Herb, you nailed it both in the build and the riding.
Joe

[HarleyCreation]

2013 "Gray Ghost" Model

Herb
This article is due to your insistence of me posting a parts request on this forum. Those who don't like the article sorry blame Herb.

Joe, I'll take all the blame -- or credit -- it's an honor. You accomplished things few of us even dream of.

I built my Gray Ghost in about 11 months, HD should be able to do the same in double that ok triple. I would be excited to see a slender Gray Ghost minimalist bike produced by the Motor Company. I will get with Willie right away.

The bike will require an all new line. Sportster motors are two wide, big twins are too "Big", V rods are wet but a good foundation for technology. I can picture it already simple basic slender light weight (400 pounds wet MAX). A narrow crankcase with Lower displacement perhaps 66 cubic inches with over square dimensions (large pistons short stroke). A compact CV transmission, possibiliy built directly into the front and rear drive belt pulleys, rear pulley being a large diameter hoop attached to the rear wheel. A reintroduction of the springer fork (narrow). Long slender fuel tank with cutouts for clearance of the belt drive overhead cam four valve top end on a wider angle twin cylinder air cooled engine moderately tuned to bypass the need for water cooling and emissions issues. Rubber mounted engine for the ultimate smooth ride. Total redesign of a concealed rear suspension. Full length fenders (no banana peal front fender). A solo seat. Tall slender tires wire wheels with smooth profile rims. Simple gray paint with carmine and gold stripping, tank decals accented by bright nickel plating to commemorate the great bikes from the past. I could go on but this is a good foundation lets get started. Don't forget the exhaust cut out for those who need some noise some of the time. What you say Pedals? Hmm

I like it. I like the air-cooling, light weight, and smaller displacement. It's no secret that H-D needs to reinvent itself and your ideas combine the very old with the new. I also like the narrower tires and full fenders. Bringing it out as the "Gray Ghost" model (better copyright that name FAST before H-D grabs it!) and then expanding the line would be the way to go. I would like gear primary and final shaft instead but would accept belt, I guess. Sounds like your re-engineering of Bill Harley's original Gray Fellow with updates for modern conditions is something that the guys at the Motor Company today should not ignore. It's pretty clear that Mr. Harley was looking over your shoulder with a smile on his face. If only we could explain those lost 8 miles!

The three speeders had an advantage for sure (especially in the mountain switchbacks) but I did not notice much disadvantage for the strong running Ghost. The Ghost pulled well and challenged my abilities to balance the performance level to road challenges and conditions . Sliding around the switch backs in loose sandy gravel while watching closly, the white line and the cliff was certainly interesting. Op's I gave away future highlights. It was important to maintain RPM's/speed in the mountain switchbacks and not over run your equipment or abilities.

Joe

I'm amazed at how well the single-speed twin works in real road and weather conditions. I always thought they were totally outclassed by the 3-speed, but maybe not. Took more finesse or technique to ride one well, but you showed how it can done. It still boggles my mind that you're essentially taking off in 3rd gear but if it works, well, who I am to think otherwise? Pretty amazing how much the Harley-Davidson advanced in 10 short years, 1904-1914. It really was a cross-continent machine by the latter date. Too bad the single-speed twin era was so short-lived. Sounds like a very cool setup and the final link to the pioneer days.

[Slojo]

YES my first order. Now where do I secure funding? Tom you can place the very first order here.
Joe

[Tom Lovejoy]

Awesome reading, after hearing Joe's discription of the new Gray Ghost model's - where do I place my order? I want one! Keep em coming Joe.

[Slojo]

"Gray Ghost sounds like it should be a new model for 2013 to me...."

"Joe, did you ever feel much disadvantaged by having just a single speed?"

Herb
This article is due to your insistence of me posting a parts request on this forum. Those who don't like the article sorry blame Herb.

I built my Gray Ghost in about 11 months, HD should be able to do the same in double that ok triple. I would be excited to see a slender Gray Ghost minimalist bike produced by the Motor Company. I will get with Willie right away.

The bike will require an all new line. Sportster motors are two wide, big twins are to "Big", V rods are wet but a good foundation for technology. I can picture it already simple basic slender light weight (400 pounds wet MAX). A narrow crankcase with Lower displacement perhaps 66 cubic inches with over square dimensions (large pistons short stroke). A compact CV transmission, possibiliy built directly into the front and rear drive belt pulleys, rear pulley being a large diameter hoop attached to the rear wheel. A reintroduction of the springer fork (narrow). Long slender fuel tank with cutouts for clearance of the belt drive overhead cam four valve top end on a wider angle twin cylinder air cooled engine moderately tuned to bypass the need for water cooling and emissions issues. Rubber mounted engine for the ultimate smooth ride. Total redesign of a concealed rear suspension. Full length fenders (no banana peal front fender). A solo seat. Tall slender tires wire wheels with smooth profile rims. Simple gray paint with carmine and gold stripping, tank decals accented by bright nickel plating to commemorate the great bikes from the past. I could go on but this is a good foundation lets get started. Don't forget the exhaust cut out for those who need some noise some of the time. What you say Pedals? Hmm


The three speeders had an advantage for sure (especially in the mountain switchbacks) but I did not notice much disadvantage for the strong running Ghost. The Ghost pulled well and challenged my abilities to balance the performance level to road challenges and conditions . Sliding around the switch backs in loose sandy gravel while watching closly, the white line and the cliff was certainly interesting. Op's I gave away future highlights. It was important to maintain RPM's/speed in the mountain switchbacks and not over run your equipment or abilities.

Joe

[HarleyCreation]

Awesome post.

Gray Ghost sounds like it should be a new model for 2013 to me....

Joe, did you ever feel much disadvantaged by having just a single speed?

Any body still out there? I just re-read my last Cannonball post to refresh my mind, man do I ever need a good proof reader prior to submitting these posts sorry for the errors. Typically I write and proof read these posts in the wee hours of the night. Back to business.

After leaving Chattanooga Tennessee Brad Wilmarth and I began ridding together often. Problem while ridding with Brad is we have two different bikes and two different ridding styles. Brad's X is geared to run at his comfort zone of 45 to 48 MPH on the other hand the Ghost runs well at an indicated 55 which actually is a bit faster than 60 according to those that have paced me with late model bike and car speedos. Furthermore Brad comes from a dirt bike ridding style where he pushes the bike away from him into the corner as his body remains somewhat vertical. I am more prone to ride like I am on my Ducati, get the body mass leaning off center of the bike while I bring the bike down gracefully into the corner. I didn't see Brad put his foot down for turns, although it was commonly used for braking.

Otherwise Brad and I had great fun while ridding together until somewhere in the middle of nowhere wherever that was or is??? Brad's copper fuel line fractured (I warned him about using copper fuel lines). Brad must have played his cards right because this breakdown is the first of his "as luck would have it situations" We pulled into a lonely repair shop surrounded by miles of nothing but farm land.

Just as we pulled in to the repair facility an absolutely stunning blonde babe in stretched tight and thin faded pair of blue jeans (you know the kind where you can read the label on her ah ow forget it) approaches us and demands all the helmets be removed so she could have a beauty contest. Immediately off with my helmet before she had a chance to see Brad and Vince she grabs me up and gave me the WWII sailor hug of the century (you know the one). Yes ! I thought while Brad's eyeballs popped out, I was falling all over myself what a great southern greeting. And wouldn't you know it I was interviewing for a brand new girlfriend.

Blondie and I had a great conversation (just love that southern bell accent) while Brad was repairing his bike. After several hugs and squeezes later Blondie told me she was married... STOP... I thought. The first thing that came to mind was, and I said "give me three steeps give me three steeps towards my bike and you will never seea me no more,,, for sure". Meanwhile Brad laughing at me had lost his fitting for his fuel line. At least a half hour latter I was ready to leave Brad behind when Junior Samples (remember him?) bends over and says is this the part you are looking for? As luck would have it Brad rejoiced in the accidental find, fixed his bike and off we went. Narrowly escaping the Alabama disaster, nurse Blondie's husband who may have showed up unexpectedly.

Blondie sure was sweet entertaining also. She was telling stories of her time spent in Virginia medical school. Her friends were feeding seagulls Alka-Seltzer tablets. Apparently if a seagull swallows an Alka-Seltzer Effervescent Tablet they will also take in enough water to activate the effervescence creating Co2 gasses or something causing the birds to explode while in flight. As gruesome as this was to learn of it also was extremely funny to picture in your mind, POW there goes another one. And down floats another seagull pelt. Lets hope Bassam does not learn of this trick or it will add to the list of prohibited items permitted on commercial airline flights.

Once out of the farmland countryside and, over the river and through the woods we go where all is well again, Brad and I come around a nice fast down hill right hander at speed only to find a cold steel Locomotive nightmare rolling down a pair of well oiled R.R. tracks. I am leading Fred Flintstone, Brad's nick name during the road run due to his unconventional yet clever front tire scrub brake he devised with the help of none other than Jerry Capa, Personally I would be embarrassed but it worked, was cool and entertaining as long as it did not rain. The novelty of the skid noise every time Fred squeezed the front brake lever never wore off in the entire coast to coast trip.

Train in our path I threw my hands out violently, waving them in the air like an air traffic controller on an aircraft landing deck facing the S.S. Frigate in a hurricane, warning Fred of the impending disaster. Front scrub brake on for all it's worth with a Pepe Le Pew like burnt rubber smell in the air and a loud squealing noise much like Ned Beatty of Deliverance coming from the charging !913 X front end. Without further fanfare both bikes came to a halt disaster avoided by a safe margin of about a breath no more (six feet perhaps). I would say maybe seven feet but Fred wore a foot off in the panic stop with a one foot down on the road surface doing a skid test. Wilmarth? Flintstone? these names must be Irish, synonymous or both.

Fred and I had a great time ridding together until the hills and curves would present themselves. By by Fred, The Ghost and I would be gone in a flash. The Ghost with its strong running 66 cubes of torque rich engine really handles well. The tighter the corners the better, With the modified Ghost I would loose Fred and pretty much anybody else in the best ridding conditions found, the twisties. Brad once stated something of his admiring my circumstances, the right set up for the conditions. The descriptive term Brad used I believe was "hero" he really knew I was having the time of my life in the best of conditions and was a bit envious. Brads bike was one of the most original bikes and still performed superior quite a testimonial for the X of the day. Brad had modern tires and rims and the Fred Flintstone brake all else appeared to be stock.

Joe

[Slojo]

Joe, Vintage Brake sells Ferodo, etc. race compound brake shoes for most old Hondas. I used their shoes on my vintage racers. I think they can also reline your shoes if the don't carry that particular shoe.

http://www.vintagebrake.com/

David thank you for the brake shoe info I will give them a call.
Joe

[Slojo]

Yup.... still listening...... It's cool to hear the little details that don't make the press! How long did it take you to wipe the grin from your face after the encounter with the southern belle? Junior Samples? Sounds like you hit the set of Hee Haw....

Cory
Blondie, the Southern Belle had a small but unforgettable part of an overall experience that has left a permanent Jack Nicholson style Joker grin on my face. Junior Samples, funny you caught that one I guess you are paying attention.

Honestly, I wish I could offer a better account of the "Experience". I wasn't willing to handle all the responsibilities of ridding, maintaining, socializing and documenting a 17 day event of this magnitude on a 96 year old machine. I can only offer up some of my favorite highlights.

Having such a fine performing bike is one thing that really made this event for me. Catching and passing many of the other bikes, tossing in and out of the twisties, climbing the mountain switchbacks and just droning across the barren flats was all to much of an experience to capture in print with the limited time I had available to document the experience. I didn't even use my camera as it was just an addition burden. My thoughts, many people were there to handle documentation, my responsibilities, make things happen not record them.

Sorry about the "choppy" Seagulls article I just could not come together for that session at the keys.

Joe

[dlm32]

Joe, Vintage Brake sells Ferodo, etc. race compound brake shoes for most old Hondas. I used their shoes on my vintage racers. I think they can also reline your shoes if the don't carry that particular shoe.

http://www.vintagebrake.com/

[Slojo]

Tommo
I was cautious with my choice of front brakes and fork selection. I also warned my good friend Matt Olsen that he had overwhelmed his fork using the brake he selected. By the time I discussed his brake he was already to far along with the adaptation. I too believe his brake force and weight may have overwhelmed his fork and contributed to his unfortunate accident. Simultaneous turning and braking cause side forces not a direct straight on brake force. Add in poor road conditions and this all spells disaster. This is an important consideration when building and using a brake set up on any early fork.

As far as the un-sprung weight and fork strength, My fork was a bit stronger and wider than a stock !914 unit. The fork I used, a 16 through 23 J model fork has a larger beam and was just right for what I had in mind, the small !982 Honda duel leading shoe front brake. This compact light weight dirt bike brake is handsome to boot. Function was a bit week I think there is room for improvement in the shoes and cable I used.

I experienced absolutely no handling issues as the bike exceeded my expectations in its handling, comfort and performance characteristics. The front fork spring rate was a little stiff.

The un-sprung weight was compensated for by use of a lighter aluminum front rim and greater spring resistance on the suspension. I had the !923 only auxiliary fork spring kit installed. Again, this combination was supreme in its class. I hope this answers your questions. I can not comment on other fork brake setups as I did not ride any of the other bikes.

Joe

[Tommo]

Joe,
I'd appreciate your thoughts on the effects the increase of the unsprung weight had on the handling of those bikes that fitted front brakes into old original style forks that were never designed for this sort of unsprung weight.
I'm pretty sure it was Matt Olsens bike that had a large Triumph twin leading shoe wheel fitted and I have since wondered if this contributed to his accident.
As a Militaire owner I know first hand what the effects of unsprung weight has on a motorcycle frame/chassis and for those not familiar with the Militaire, the whole front end including the handlebars ,headlight, etc is unsprung and exerts some major stresses on the frame/chassis and the repairs to my Militaire are evidence of these forces.

[c.o.]

Yup.... still listening...... It's cool to hear the little details that don't make the press! How long did it take you to wipe the grin from your face after the encounter with the southern belle? Junior Samples? Sounds like you hit the set of Hee Haw....

[Slojo]

What........Seagulls

Any body still out there? I just re-read my last Cannonball post to refresh my mind, man do I ever need a good proof reader prior to submitting these posts sorry for the errors. Typically I write and proof read these posts in the wee hours of the night. Back to business.

After leaving Chattanooga Tennessee Brad Wilmarth and I began ridding together often. Problem while ridding with Brad is we have two different bikes and two different ridding styles. Brad's X is geared to run at his comfort zone of 45 to 48 MPH on the other hand the Ghost runs well at an indicated 55 which actually is a bit faster than 60 according to those that have paced me with late model bike and car speedos. Furthermore Brad comes from a dirt bike ridding style where he pushes the bike away from him into the corner as his body remains somewhat vertical. I am more prone to ride like I am on my Ducati, get the body mass leaning off center of the bike while I bring the bike down gracefully into the corner. I didn't see Brad put his foot down for turns, although it was commonly used for braking.

Otherwise Brad and I had great fun while ridding together until somewhere in the middle of nowhere wherever that was or is??? Brad's copper fuel line fractured (I warned him about using copper fuel lines). Brad must have played his cards right because this breakdown is the first of his "as luck would have it situations" We pulled into a lonely repair shop surrounded by miles of nothing but farm land.

Just as we pulled in to the repair facility an absolutely stunning blonde babe in stretched tight and thin faded pair of blue jeans (you know the kind where you can read the label on her ah ow forget it) approaches us and demands all the helmets be removed so she could have a beauty contest. Immediately off with my helmet before she had a chance to see Brad and Vince she grabs me up and gave me the WWII sailor hug of the century (you know the one). Yes ! I thought while Brad's eyeballs popped out, I was falling all over myself what a great southern greeting. And wouldn't you know it I was interviewing for a brand new girlfriend.

Blondie and I had a great conversation (just love that southern bell accent) while Brad was repairing his bike. After several hugs and squeezes later Blondie told me she was married... STOP... I thought. The first thing that came to mind was, and I said "give me three steeps give me three steeps towards my bike and you will never seea me no more,,, for sure". Meanwhile Brad laughing at me had lost his fitting for his fuel line. At least a half hour latter I was ready to leave Brad behind when Junior Samples (remember him?) bends over and says is this the part you are looking for? As luck would have it Brad rejoiced in the accidental find, fixed his bike and off we went. Narrowly escaping the Alabama disaster, nurse Blondie's husband who may have showed up unexpectedly.

Blondie sure was sweet entertaining also. She was telling stories of her time spent in Virginia medical school. Her friends were feeding seagulls Alka-Seltzer tablets. Apparently if a seagull swallows an Alka-Seltzer Effervescent Tablet they will also take in enough water to activate the effervescence creating Co2 gasses or something causing the birds to explode while in flight. As gruesome as this was to learn of it also was extremely funny to picture in your mind, POW there goes another one. And down floats another seagull pelt. Lets hope Bassam does not learn of this trick or it will add to the list of prohibited items permitted on commercial airline flights.

Once out of the farmland countryside and, over the river and through the woods we go where all is well again, Brad and I come around a nice fast down hill right hander at speed only to find a cold steel Locomotive nightmare rolling down a pair of well oiled R.R. tracks. I am leading Fred Flintstone, Brad's nick name during the road run due to his unconventional yet clever front tire scrub brake he devised with the help of none other than Jerry Capa, Personally I would be embarrassed but it worked, was cool and entertaining as long as it did not rain. The novelty of the skid noise every time Fred squeezed the front brake lever never wore off in the entire coast to coast trip.

Train in our path I threw my hands out violently, waving them in the air like an air traffic controller on an aircraft landing deck facing the S.S. Frigate in a hurricane, warning Fred of the impending disaster. Front scrub brake on for all it's worth with a Pepe Le Pew like burnt rubber smell in the air and a loud squealing noise much like Ned Beatty of Deliverance coming from the charging !913 X front end. Without further fanfare both bikes came to a halt disaster avoided by a safe margin of about a breath no more (six feet perhaps). I would say maybe seven feet but Fred wore a foot off in the panic stop with a one foot down on the road surface doing a skid test. Wilmarth? Flintstone? these names must be Irish, synonymous or both.

Fred and I had a great time ridding together until the hills and curves would present themselves. By by Fred, The Ghost and I would be gone in a flash. The Ghost with its strong running 66 cubes of torque rich engine really handles well. The tighter the corners the better, With the modified Ghost I would loose Fred and pretty much anybody else in the best ridding conditions found, the twisties. Brad once stated something of his admiring my circumstances, the right set up for the conditions. The descriptive term Brad used I believe was "hero" he really knew I was having the time of my life in the best of conditions and was a bit envious. Brads bike was one of the most original bikes and still performed superior quite a testimonial for the X of the day. Brad had modern tires and rims and the Fred Flintstone brake all else appeared to be stock.

Joe

[fillibuster]

Joe, it's been a great thread! haven't missed a word, but forgot some. .. age.
I wish to ask tech questions, but should let your report go un-interrupted first.
Like, your piston clearance could take pages upon pages.