early sidecar

[Clydeflathead]

early sidecar

excellent point Tommo, and here is a photo of what you spoke of. The axle extended.

[exeric]

The following pictures are of an unrestored, unmolested Rogers sidecar that belongs to a good friend. I took pictures of both sides of the wheel hub, and the wheel on the axel.

[exeric]

[exeric]

[Clydeflathead]

early sidecar

Fantastic photos exeric, the leather strap on the hub brings back memories, I used to do that myself. one question though, the axle looks welded in place, yet has a nut and lock washer on the back side ? Also I would like to thank all you guys, this has been a fun thread !!

[Tommo]

Exeric,
I'm curious as to how you would adjust the wheel bearings on that set-up and as Clyde says the axle appears to be welded in.
If the axle has in fact been welded in the loads put onto it close to the weld would worry me.
Are you sure it hasn't been got at and what diameter is the axle?

[exeric]

I'll get more info when I get over to see it again. I wondered about the weld and would assume it is an ancient fix. Just a guess, but the bearing set-up in the hub looks similar a later H-D roller bearing wheel that uses thrust washers and spacers to handle side loads.

[Clydeflathead]

early sidecar

exeric, Is there any way we could get some photos of the fender mount set up for this Rogers ? Heck, if you go over to your friends again, get photos of the whole chassis, that thing is awesome. And tommo, you'll probably think I'm nuts ( I am, it's no secret )
but if you had a long solid axle, turn down at the end ,the length of the axle sleeve, to fit inside the axle sleeve, drilled and tapped for c.o.'s threaded stud (axle in his photo)
wouldn't that make his wheel workable? So maybe He has to go back out and find the solid axle ? (told you I was nuts) Also a question on the expandible axle, do you guys think there were allot of bent axles or MC frames do to the leverage issue created by moving the wheel so far out ? Remember this is before Mr.Gouldings floating axle. The only springs on these chassis where for the body.

[c.o.]

And tommo, you'll probably think I'm nuts ( I am, it's no secret )
.

Well that makes two of us then.......

I put a little elbow grease into this wheel tonight... (not that much as it should be much cleaner) and I'm starting to think that I've got a rear wheel here.

Here's the front hub on the Powerplus. It's much smaller than the mystery wheel.



Here are a couple shots of the rear hub on the Indian.





Here are a couple of pics of the wheel somewhat cleaned up (the mud after 90 odd years is like concrete!!) Sorry it looks like the flash blurred things a little. It measures exactly the same diameter as the Powerplus rear wheel.





Here are a few of a dust cover.... Made in Canada!!! Now I don't know if they are necessarily original to the wheel. I can't recall offhand when the factory in Toronto closed it's doors.





This one is a little clearer pic of the back of the axle to better illustrate the machined slot. (I guess not really much clearer... I gotta get the flash thing figured out!!!)



What do you folks think???

[c.o.]

Most if not all of the sidecars produced during the period we are discussing had adjustable track, that is the ability to move the sidecar axle in or out to suit the spacing of the wheel ruts you encountered.
Hence the clamping style of axle mount you have on your chassis Cory.
To enable this the mudguard/fender had to be mounted on the axle and not on the chassis and because of this the axle assembly had to be quite strong.
As well as supporting the mudguard it had to be strong enough to support the whole weight of the rig as it's outside end is totally unsupported.
Looking at your wheel Cory I doubt if the axle in that is much more than 1/2 inch and there's no way that would hold a sidecar up with one end unsupported.
There's more chance that the wheel is right for the Indian than there is for it fitting the sidecar.
I've got a HD sidecar axle that I'll photograph and post a picture of so you'll get a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Your insight is always appreciated Tommo. Thank-you.

[c.o.]

Eric, thanks for the photos. They put things in perspective. I'm pretty sure I've got another rear wheel.

The grease cup has me wondering on the mystery wheel. Have any of you fellas ever seen one like it?

Thanks again for all the input. I'll agree with Clydeflathead, this has been a fun thread!!!

[Tommo]

100_0255.jpg100_0254.jpgI reckon you've answered your own question with regards the wheel Cory.
I've attached a couple of photos of a HD sidecar axle. Just remember if you do make one keep the abrupt changes of section to a minimum as these can lead to fractures and breakages.
The stub axle is brazed to the carrier tube at the point where the inner mudguard mount is attached and protrudes a further two or so inches further into the carrier tube for support. Most sidecar wheels I've had anything to do with always have a larger bearing on the inside than that on the outside.
Clyde unless you have a chassis that supports the axle at both ends, eg AJS, you need an axle that is at least 5/8 on the outer end and 3/4 on the inner. In my opinion a parallel axle is a recipe for disaster but Exeric's photos prove that someone had faith in a small parallel axle.

[Tommo]

I thought I had this picture posting sussed and for the life of me I don't know how they ended up at the start rather than the finish. Sorry chaps.
Anyhow here's a couple of examples of AJS chassis with the axle supported at both ends.

[exeric]

Peter, bear in mind that the later H-D LE sidecars had a stub shaft axel similar to the Rogers.

[Tommo]

Eric,
Here's a Goulding axle and an example of the dropped axle Harley-Davidson one.
There are several different HD ones but I think that this will give the general idea as to how beefy they are.
I'm just concerned that someone may try using a front wheel with a 7/16 or 1/2 inch axle and suffer disasterous results.
Its just that the axle in your photo looks very small in diameter.
I'm guilty of doing some horrific stunts in sidecars and know from experience the sort of damage you can do to yourself and your machine.
One of Milwaukee's finest said never again after I'd taken him for a spin in my rig.