Jules’ favorite bike 1928 101 Scout

[FLFD7]

Just a FYI for those working on 101s, the cork seal that Greer sells for the drive gear on later Chiefs fit the 101…

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[tfburke3]

After installing that seal I have found it necessary to sand the seal down,or pre crush in a vise until the protrusion is less than flywheel side play,otherwise it will pull the flyweel against case,causing binding and early sprocket shaft thrust washer wear.
I don't think the seal really does much if your flywheel assembly is moving side to side.Probably the large sprocket washer does more.
Tom

[gharper]

I've discovered the best way to manage that cork seal is to eliminate it! Install a 1/8" wide lip seal at the outboard edge of the race. This will then require the spacer for the bearing cages to be turned down narrower, to allow room for the bearing cages. Yes, it moves the outboard bearing inboard by 1/8" but that does not matter. Having a good seal is important, otherwise the primary drive / transmission oil can mix with engine oil, or visa versa. Greers sells a setup for the chief like this but I don't know if it will fit the Scout.

[pisten-bully]

...with the lip seal you'll have to split the cases to replace it?

[gharper]

No, it's on the outboard end of the drive shaft, sits right behind the main drive gear.

[FLFD7]

Gene,
Thats something I’ll look into when I do the engine that belongs in the bike, but for this engine, which will be temporary and then become my spare, I’m going to use the cork “seal” which is actually a spring I guess that holds the thrust washer against the bearing housing.

I pushed the flywheel all the way to the drive side and installed the drive gear (pinion in Indian speak) without the cork installed and without a thrust washer

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then measured that gap

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Came up with .093”

So now I’ll pick a thrust washer to use and determine how much the cork needs to stand proud of the back of the drive gear to ensure there is always some compression on the thrust washer.

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The thrust washers that I have measured .058 .076 and .087. I ruled out the two thicker ones cause I don’t think it leaves enough of the cork sticking out. A really thin cork wouldn’t compress as much as a really long cork, so I figure more “give” better then less. So by picking to .058” washer that gives me .093 - .058 = .035 cork + a little extra for pre compression to ensure the washer “seals” against the outside of the bearing race. The key is how much extra? I was thinking .005 - .007, which would be .100 total height cork and washer above the backside of the drive gear.

Does that sound about right? It’s not going to be exact cause I need to carefully sand the cork down. If I take too much away then maybe not enough force on the washer and it won’t seal. Too much cork and maybe too much compression?

Still pondering.

[tfburke3]

Any compression of the cork will just bind up the wheels against the race and flywheel thrust washer.
Try a torque wrench to turn before and after,although I think you will feel by hand .You will definitely lose side play.The cork is really not very springy.
If the protrusion is less than side play at least the wheels can move,but obviously that makes the seal less effective
Tom

[FLFD7]

The explanation in the 101 R & O manual is that it should basically bring the drive side flywheel thrust washer flush with the inside of the drive side bearing race and the drive gear thrust washer flush with the outside of the bearing race. The tech tips on the 101 website mention that the cork should be tight but that you should still be able to turn the outside thrust washer with a screwdriver. That's what I'm aiming for, there should still be enough "give" in the cork to allow the thrust washer to rotate and some side play for the flywheels, but not the full "free" amount (in my case about .020"). According to "GY" (Mr. 101) that allows for the expansion of the aluminum case when heated up while keeping the drive side locked between the thrust washers. His concern is that since the drive side is captive between the thrust washers that it wouldn't get sufficient oil to the rollers and he recommended grinding a groove on the inside face of the bearing race to let oil get in and out (he says Indian did this in later models). I have Jules original cases apart and there is no groove there, and he ran that engine a good 20 years or more without a problem, so I think there is enough give on that cork seal to allow the flywheels enough movement to let the oil in and out.

[FLFD7]

Well, here goes…

Checked how much the thrust washer and cork make up

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I got .099, the gap measured .093, I figure about .003-.004 interference, so only taking off a couple thousandths (is it even necessary?), so spin in some extra fine sandpaper and I get

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.095, so not much interference, I installed the thrust washer, gear (pinion in Indian lingo), torqued it down and when tested could spin the thrust washer with a screwdriver. It does not spin freely, but it isn’t very hard to spin so maybe I should have left the cork alone.

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Well, on to the transmission…

[FLFD7]

But first….pinion gear on….

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I wonder why they use a copper washer under the screw? I have 2 other 101 bottom ends and each one has a copper washer…

[FLFD7]

Moving on to the transmission, everything cleaned up ready to go back together

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Space is tight in there, first don’t forget the little seal that goes in the sprocket side cluster gear bushing, the old one always gets destroyed punching out the cluster gear shaft. Then you drop the cluster gear in but can’t put the shaft thru yet cause there is no room for the drive gear to fit past second gear on the cluster. Once the drive gear is installed thru that side bearing then you can pick the cluster gear up and push in the shaft.

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Then the retaining clip holds in the cluster gear shaft, and you can install the bearing shield, felt seal (new) and cover on the sprocket side. So far, so good.

[FLFD7]

Next up the slider gear and main shaft. I put the main shaft thru the bearing and inside the case slide on the clutch hub nut lock washer, clutch hub nut, slider gear, and don’t forget the sprocket side thrust washer. The clutch side thrust washer I put on the main shaft outside the bearing and push it thru with the clutch hub.

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Making sure the inside tooth of the lock washer slides into the groove on the clutch hub, and spin on the nut. I know there is going to be haters, but I learned from Jules to use a bearing retainer washer (star shape) instead of the usual Indian washer. The internal tooth is the same size as the Indian washer, and they are the same thickness and ID. Anyone who has tried to bend the Indian washer over the nut flat inside the case where direct access above and behind is blocked by the case itself knows what a humongous pain it is. The outside fingers on the bearing retainer have to be flattened out before installing, the are normally a cup shape and interfere with the nut. I fold three of the tabs over and have at least as much if not more contact area with the nut. Jules used to use them on his racers, so that’s good enough for me. Plus they only cost like three bucks each from McMaster.

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OK, now everything is tightened up, I’ll check for end play, according to the 101 R&O manual .005-.010 is good, I’m getting .009, which is good.

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Next up, shifter fork

[FLFD7]

OK, I’m a dope….

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I figured to put in shifter fork next but of course you can’t put the shifter fork guide rod when the clutch hub is in the way, so back everything out, remove the clutch hub. Shifter fork over the slider gear, push the rod in, and install the set screw that holds the rod in.

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This set screw been staked in more then a few times over the last 90 something years, so some red loctite outta do.
Now I can put the clutch hub in… IMG_2990.jpeg IMG_2991.jpeg

By the way I had to grind the heck out of the backside of the Indian style wrench to clear the case casting and hold the nut properly. The other tool I picked up years ago to hold the clutch hub, very handy.

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[ammorest]

Joe, really enjoying your build. Better than Indian shop manuals. I made my own clutch hub nut wrench out if flat stock. I like the holding tool. What material is tge white notched part? Keep the pics coming. Thanks, Dave

[exeric]

Like Dave said, appreciate your pictures, and text, Joe. That clutch holding tool sure would have been handy on my SS. I'll put that in the memory bank.