Jules’ favorite bike 1928 101 Scout

[FLFD7]

But first….pinion gear on….

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I wonder why they use a copper washer under the screw? I have 2 other 101 bottom ends and each one has a copper washer…

[FLFD7]

Well, here goes…

Checked how much the thrust washer and cork make up

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I got .099, the gap measured .093, I figure about .003-.004 interference, so only taking off a couple thousandths (is it even necessary?), so spin in some extra fine sandpaper and I get

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.095, so not much interference, I installed the thrust washer, gear (pinion in Indian lingo), torqued it down and when tested could spin the thrust washer with a screwdriver. It does not spin freely, but it isn’t very hard to spin so maybe I should have left the cork alone.

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Well, on to the transmission…

[FLFD7]

The explanation in the 101 R & O manual is that it should basically bring the drive side flywheel thrust washer flush with the inside of the drive side bearing race and the drive gear thrust washer flush with the outside of the bearing race. The tech tips on the 101 website mention that the cork should be tight but that you should still be able to turn the outside thrust washer with a screwdriver. That's what I'm aiming for, there should still be enough "give" in the cork to allow the thrust washer to rotate and some side play for the flywheels, but not the full "free" amount (in my case about .020"). According to "GY" (Mr. 101) that allows for the expansion of the aluminum case when heated up while keeping the drive side locked between the thrust washers. His concern is that since the drive side is captive between the thrust washers that it wouldn't get sufficient oil to the rollers and he recommended grinding a groove on the inside face of the bearing race to let oil get in and out (he says Indian did this in later models). I have Jules original cases apart and there is no groove there, and he ran that engine a good 20 years or more without a problem, so I think there is enough give on that cork seal to allow the flywheels enough movement to let the oil in and out.

[tfburke3]

Any compression of the cork will just bind up the wheels against the race and flywheel thrust washer.
Try a torque wrench to turn before and after,although I think you will feel by hand .You will definitely lose side play.The cork is really not very springy.
If the protrusion is less than side play at least the wheels can move,but obviously that makes the seal less effective
Tom

[FLFD7]

Gene,
Thats something I’ll look into when I do the engine that belongs in the bike, but for this engine, which will be temporary and then become my spare, I’m going to use the cork “seal” which is actually a spring I guess that holds the thrust washer against the bearing housing.

I pushed the flywheel all the way to the drive side and installed the drive gear (pinion in Indian speak) without the cork installed and without a thrust washer

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then measured that gap

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Came up with .093”

So now I’ll pick a thrust washer to use and determine how much the cork needs to stand proud of the back of the drive gear to ensure there is always some compression on the thrust washer.

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The thrust washers that I have measured .058 .076 and .087. I ruled out the two thicker ones cause I don’t think it leaves enough of the cork sticking out. A really thin cork wouldn’t compress as much as a really long cork, so I figure more “give” better then less. So by picking to .058” washer that gives me .093 - .058 = .035 cork + a little extra for pre compression to ensure the washer “seals” against the outside of the bearing race. The key is how much extra? I was thinking .005 - .007, which would be .100 total height cork and washer above the backside of the drive gear.

Does that sound about right? It’s not going to be exact cause I need to carefully sand the cork down. If I take too much away then maybe not enough force on the washer and it won’t seal. Too much cork and maybe too much compression?

Still pondering.

[gharper]

No, it's on the outboard end of the drive shaft, sits right behind the main drive gear.

[pisten-bully]

...with the lip seal you'll have to split the cases to replace it?

[gharper]

I've discovered the best way to manage that cork seal is to eliminate it! Install a 1/8" wide lip seal at the outboard edge of the race. This will then require the spacer for the bearing cages to be turned down narrower, to allow room for the bearing cages. Yes, it moves the outboard bearing inboard by 1/8" but that does not matter. Having a good seal is important, otherwise the primary drive / transmission oil can mix with engine oil, or visa versa. Greers sells a setup for the chief like this but I don't know if it will fit the Scout.

[tfburke3]

After installing that seal I have found it necessary to sand the seal down,or pre crush in a vise until the protrusion is less than flywheel side play,otherwise it will pull the flyweel against case,causing binding and early sprocket shaft thrust washer wear.
I don't think the seal really does much if your flywheel assembly is moving side to side.Probably the large sprocket washer does more.
Tom

[FLFD7]

Just a FYI for those working on 101s, the cork seal that Greer sells for the drive gear on later Chiefs fit the 101…

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[FLFD7]

Going thru the transmission I think I’m going to replace the gear set. I found a slider gear that was in better shape…
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The one in the back was in the trans, I’ll use the one in front.

As for the cluster gear the one Jules put in had a shim, but I found one with teeth in as good as shape but it had a shoulder cast on the flank of the first gear
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And that shoulder is the same thickness as the shim Jules used

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Looking at the diagram on Jerry Greers website the shoulder is pictured in their diagram

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image credit to Jerry Greer.

I’ll go with the cluster with the shoulder, if anything it’ll be easier to install without having to use a shim.

[FLFD7]

Test fitting the trans case ran into a problem straight away, my fault I used a bolt and nut instead of the double ended stud and it was too wide for the recess in the trans case…dooh!

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So I had to update the hardware

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That’ll work

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yep. Once bolted to the case I wanted to check the fit in the frame, since Jules had welded on the mounts I would guess he checked it himself but you never know.

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No worries, went right in, I’m happy.

[FLFD7]

While I’m waiting for a new cork seal let’s move on to the transmission

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needs some TLC

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OK, all apart, gotta clean.

Some of Jules welding on the case…

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Gonna do a little test fitting first

[FLFD7]

I need to get a new cork seal for the back of the drive gear (drive pinion). The one in this pinion fell apart

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And another one I have seems very brittle

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Greer doesn’t have one listed under 101 parts, so I’m wondering if anyone knows if it’s the same cork used on the later Chiefs

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The 1.313 ID seems right, the groove on the back of the drive pinion is about .145 deep and the Greer cork is .187 thick, does this seem right ?

Joe

Drawing credits to Jerry Greer

[FLFD7]

A little bit of oil and away we go….

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According to the 101 R&O book want about .010 to .020 play.

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IMG_2763.jpeg .588 to .605 so .017 play, the Yamabond add another .003 or so, I’d say that’s good to go.