1920 Harley Model F

[MMasa]

I make mine out of fiber reinforced Micarta when I need them. Same as the material used in the -23 rear hub spacers.
Mark

[TechNoir]

Thanks for that Peter, so it seems that fibre washers were used well into the 30's. I will have a chat with Steve Slocombe and see what his take on these fiber washers is.

John

[Peter Cooke]

I am not familiar with the VL's etc that came after so don't know what they use

Fibre washers were still used in VL's John. The only thing I can come up with is that they wouldn't damage cam surfaces if they broke apart. But then, a metal one is not likely to break apart anyway.
Although if it's getting ground down in there there'd be metal filings.

[TechNoir]

Hello Steve, I did look back at your discussion on this topic and noted Joe's comments.

In my mind, if fibre washers were best for this application then you would find them in all sorts of engines and gearboxes. Obviously we don't see this so it cant be the best solution, at least that my logic.

I also noted, like you did, that there is one bronze spacer already used so I cant see why I couldn't use another one.

On the other hand this engine came out in about 1915 and was around until the late 20's (I am not familiar with the VL's etc that came after so don't know what they use) so there was plenty of time to real world test the use of fiber washers so maybe they are better than I am giving them credit?

Anyway its bronze washers for me and I will see how it goes. It is not too hard a job to get at these components if I change my mind at some point in the future.

John

[Steve Swan]

Joe Drociuk of JD Yahoo grps told me he believes a fiber washer was used on cam gear stud, in case it broke up, it wouldn't cause damage. but, i see no different if bronze shim washer broke up on lifter arm stud. would be interesting to know factory rationale for two diff materials. hazard a guess on how much end lay movement there would be on cam gear and lifter arms under operation? fwiw, the cam gear rotates against its washer, and the lifter arms have a bit of up-and-down movement against its washer. guess when i do my oil drops, i will keep an eye out for remnants of the fiber washer i fitted.

[TechNoir]

Thanks Steve. I am looking foreward to getting this bike back together and putting some miles on it.

Regarding the above question about fiber washers. I have mulled it over for a couple of days and I think I am going to go with bronze shims. In all of the engines and gearboxes that I have ever had apart they have always had hardened steel shims and thrust washers to space gears and such like. Fiber washers seem to me to be far too soft to maintain dimensional stability and I would not be surprised if in time they broke up. However I would be interested to hear of the experience of folks on here with their J's and JD's as I could be wrong.

John

[Steve Swan]

John, it's great to see you are back in commission, both your finger and 20F thread ! Looking forward to learning more !

[TechNoir]

So, in the last proper installment I had in my possession cylinders that had been bored out just to the point where they were clean. I then had new piston cast in cast iron to match the bores and they had been machined to size.

Unfortunately there was a problem, the new pistons had been machined incorrectly. Without going into too much detail the main problem was that the gudgeon pin/wrist pin holes didn't line up across the piston. in order to get them in line would mean making them bigger which in turn would mean a bigger pin which would leave the small end bush too thin.

After much thought I realised that the only solution was more new pistons.

The problem was that the foundry that cast them was quite busy and it meant I had to wait until they had a bigger job that they could fit mine in with. In the end it was about 4 months before they were able to do them for me.

I then entrusted the machining to a guy who specialises in making steam engines and he has done a great job although he was very busy so it was a couple of months before he could do them. (at this point I still didn't have a functional mill so would have struggled to do it myself)

Here is a picture of one of them.




At this point (mid October 2017) I had another problem. Here is one of the less graphic pictures. I knew it was not so good when I could see a bit of bone sticking out at the base of my fingernail. This was on my right hand and I am a righty so I was curtailed from, amongst other things, making progress on my bike projects. I ended up with a pin in it for about 6 weeks. Without turning this into too much of a tale of woe I had another problem over Christmas so it was January before I was firing on all cylinders again.



Since then I have had a few other things to attend to but now I can get back to the 20F.

I built some knife edges (see my "Knife Edges" thread in the engine section) so that I could work out if my assembly needed re-balancing with the new pistons and if it did then I could also re balance it myself. As it turned out I have decided that the balance is fine as it is.




Next the bottom end needs to go together which is where I am now.




However the various rollers, cams and gears in the timing case need to be lined up. The manual says to use stacks of fibre washers 1/64" thick to do so. I have plenty of fibre washers but fibre doesn't immediately jump out to me as the ideal choice to shim gears and such like to line them up. My gears and rollers do need some adjustment to get them to line up properly. There were none in the engine when I took it apart but given that the engine is apart I want to align things properly. I can make shims and I have at my disposal fibre, delrin, teflon, nylon, bearing bronze and of course steel. My gut says that bronze would be best but what do folks on here think. Should I stick with fibre or change to a different material?












John

[TechNoir]

Hello everyone I am finally able to start updating this thread and, hopefully, get this bike back together in the not too distant future.

First a note about pictures. As you all will have noticed most of the pictures to date have succumbed to the Photobucket issue.

From this point on I will host pictures on this thread on the amca site so that I avoid the issue from now.

However it is possible to get around the Photobucket issue. If you use the browser Chrome or Firefox then you can install an add on that fixes the issue. I have the add on and havent had a problem since and I can view pictures on many threads on various sites that I cant see if I use a different device. Occasionally you may need to update the add on.

You just need to google "Photobucket Firefox fix" or "Photobucket Chrome fix" and you will get several links to the relevant fix for your browser.

Once you have got it you will be able to see all of the broken picture links on this and other forums.

John

[Shaky Jake]

Beautiful.






Kevin


.

[TechNoir]

Ha ha, probably not my 20F at the moment then.

The original Hound of the Baskervilles comes to mind for me and of course who could forget An American Werewolf in London where they get caught on the moors in the fog and end up in the pub called the Slaughtered Lamb with the pentagram drawn on the wall. (who could forget Jenny Agutter in that film too)

I cant promise the Slaughtered Lamb pub and I hope it doesn’t turn out to be a horror film but once I get it squared away I will see about doing a home movie.

John

[exeric]

I would love to see a GoPro of your region, John. When you say Moors, I think of those fantastic Hammer horror films of the '60s with Christopher Lee, and Peter Cushing. With those guys around, you would want a motorcycle that could get up and go at a moments notice

[TechNoir]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I am looking forward to hearing your impression of it's road manners. Are there some good places to ride in your vicinity?

I am keen to get to know how it rides too Eric.

Without publishing my exact address on here I live in a village just to the west of the City of York. If you dont know, York is a very historic city and is very popular with tourists.

I live in a very rural area and the roads outside my house have on average probably 1 car every 15 to 20 minutes. Also I am also close to the North York Moors and also the Yorkshire Dales which are also very picturesque.

If I ever get it on the road I will see if I can borrow my Nieces GoPro and put up a video.

John

[Jim]

These "Build Threads" always amaze me on what you guys can do! Even though I don't have an "F" Model, I've been "watching" this build.

[exeric]

You certainly have been busy, and productive, John; and your timing looks like it will work out quite well, with Summer just around the corner. I am so impressed by your thoroughness, and desire to make your '20 run well. I am looking forward to hearing your impression of it's road manners. Are there some good places to ride in your vicinity?