1920 Harley Model F

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

When I started putting the forks back on the frame I realised that the new top cone differs from the old one. The old one has a peg so that it gets locked by the washer that fits above it.





Can anyone tell me what you guys do with these replacement bearings. I could use a tungsten drill and drill hole and Loctite a dowel in it to replicate the old cone.

Or I could leave it as it is and rely the lock nut.

What do you folks do?

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Hello folks.

I have not posted for a couple of weeks because I have been doing non bike related activities however I managed a couple of hours today.

Some new parts arrived in January



So I removed the old cups from the headstock which marked a turning point.



From now on it is mostly re-assembly rather than dismantling.

As I expected I had to carefully use a die grinder to get the bottom cone off, you can see it here on the bottom right.




New and old compared.



The cups are very similar



The bottom cone is thinner than the old one



And it also has a slightly smaller diameter



The new cups were hard to even get started let alone fully install. They measured about 10 thou bigger in diameter where they fit in the headstock than the old ones so I took some of the plating off to get them nearer to where they needed to be. Then used the press to install them.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

So I have been pondering on what to put on the brown bits to slow down or stop them rusting.

I have read tons of stuff on the subject and it is fair to say that the most effective product seems to be Owatrol Oil or as it is known in the USA Penetrol. Everyone says that it stops existing rust and prevents further rusting. However i did a small test piece and the finish looks like gloss varnish if you do a thick coat and satin varnish with a thin coat. I dot want it to look like it has been varnished so I decided that the only thing to do was do my own, very unscientific, test.

I found a piece of 100 x 100mm (4 x 4) steel that has been outside for about 2 years. It is rusty although on close inspection not as rusty as I had expected but it is the best test piece I could find lieing about so I divided it into 8 roughly 120mm (5 inch) sections and coated each with a different product except 1 section which i left bare. The 8 products are:

Owatrol Oil. Oil based rust inhibitor and paint conditioner.

Boiled Linseed Oil. I think Owatrol Oil might be a posh version of this.

Fluid Film. lanolin based marine product.

Dynax Clear Film. Synthetic wax based underbody protector.

ACF50. Rust preventer, popular with motorcyclists for winter protection

WD40. Need I say more.

Paste Wax. Various brands or homemade all seem similar.



A bit like a weird version of The Usual Suspects!

Its been at or a bit below freezing here at the moment so i left the test piece in the house for 2 days to see how they shaped up after having chance to cure.



The sections are coated in the same order as the picture of the cans.

My thoughts.

Owatrol and Linseed are both very similar and give a satin varnish look. Probably great at stabilising and preventing rust but not how I want the 20F to look like

Fluid Film. Still very wet after 2 days close to a heater. i dont think it is designed to dry out so is probably great in a marine application but would make just touching the frame messy. Has a "wet" look to it not surprisingly.

Dynax Clear Film. Dries to an almost matt finish that looks good. Has a waxy feel that retains fingerprints when touched.

ACF50. Another product that does not dry out. I have used this before and it works great for winter protection but dirt sticks to it so probably not what I want here in the same way Fluid Film is not what I want.

WD40. Not too much to say that most people wont already know. It "dries" out quite well and gives an OK appearance. Not sure how often it would need applying, suspect after any occasion he bike gets wet.

Paste Wax. Goes on easily and gives a dry almost matt appearance. Visually my favourite but, like WD40, I am not sure how long lasting it would be. Thanks goes to 26harleyj for suggesting this option.

I will probably put the test piece outside for a few weeks and report back on how each section looks.

In the meantime I need to decide what to use on my rusty metal. I am almost sure it will be wax. I have read somewhere that beeswax is slightly acidic which is why museums stopped using it on metal items and switched to microcrystaline wax also known as Renaissance Wax. I am not sure if Renaissance Wax will be better than standard paste wax in my application?

I might use paste wax on visible areas and something else on less visible ones such as the inside of mudguards and the like.

John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 "F" Project

Another small update. When I was cleaning up the rear mudguard I noted that it has holes in it that I assume are for wires for a rear light. This being a 20F it did not have electric lights so I therefore assume that the same mudguard was used on the 20F and the 20J



Another thing that I needed to do was finish stripping down the rear hub. I know that there is a special tool available for the nut that retains the brake drum but I dont have one. I didnt want to use a hammer and punch so I had a look through my scrap bin and made a very rough and quick tool to remove it. I did think that it might not be strong enough but even though the nut was very tight it did the job.









Something I need to sort out is the external brake band. I think it would be sensible to make a new one, does anyone know what grade of steel would be best to use for the band? Has anyone made one and if so do you have any advice?





John

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

Small update today, I have some car issues so Saturday was spent sorting those out but I did get some time on Sunday on the HD.

The footboards that belong to the bike are a bit worse for wear



So i cleaned up the 2 spares that came with the bike. One of them has had a horrible repair at some time in the past so I removed the bolts and I putit on the "to be repaired" pile.






I also need to address the right hand twistgrip. I assume the advice on here is to replace it rather than repair?



The original number/licence plate) has seen better days but I actually love it like it is. Sadly the UK law says that the plate has to be in better condition so the original plate is staying as it is and I will use the spare plate that came with the bike but I will need to paint it black and add white letters & numbers.







When looking at the numberplates I was wondering what this bracket on the right side of the rack is for?

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

John, is that a black pin stripe on the side of the frame tube?

exeric, the stripe is more niticable in the picture than to the eye. Here are some more pictures







I would say that there is/used to be a stripe on the frame tube. Its the same on both sides and is uniform/even.

Am I right in assuming that this is not standard?

Hi
Try Steve at MTS for the tank repairs, he did my WLA and they came out like new, easy to find on the Web.
MTS Motorcycles, near Milton Keynes.
They are "old school"

Regards

Chris Lewis

Thanks for the lead Chris.

Stainless spokes can be made to look like any other metal that you prefer. Lots of info here or in the Internet about that. Bill in Oregon

Thanks Bill, I will look into it.

[23JDCA 808]

[QUOTE=TechNoir;153012 . . .

I will find some double butted spokes. I may have to get them from the USA because the spoke suppliers I have tried so far tell me that butted and double butted spokes are only available from them in stainless which I don't want.
. . .
John[/QUOTE]

Stainless spokes can be made to look like any other metal that you prefer. Lots of info here or in the Internet about that. Bill in Oregon

[ChrisLewis]

Hi
Try Steve at MTS for the tank repairs, he did my WLA and they came out like new, easy to find on the Web.
MTS Motorcycles, near Milton Keynes.
They are "old school"

Regards

Chris Lewis

[exeric]

John, is that a black pin stripe on the side of the frame tube?

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

John, those frames rot from the inside out. You want to use a regular center punch with a ballpeen hammer. I mean give that lower loop a couple of good shots in different areas. Just because it looks good on the out side doesn't mean so on the inside. Your life could depend on it. I had one in the shop last summer that looked beautiful. The center punch when right though. There wasn't but a 1/16 of an inch of material left in that bottom loop. Bob L

Robert, those are Sage Words indeed!

So as soon as I got in from work today (first day back after a week off, not a good Monday morning) I went back into my workshop. First I honed a regular centre punch so it had a good point on it and then gave the frame some really good wollops. I did about a dozen places and all were solid. I only did down the centre line of the underneath of the bottom loop so I might need to do a few more at the sides there but it would seem to be in good condition. The bottom loop seems to be in unexpectedly good condition on the outside so I was fearing the worst (if that makes sense) but so far so good.

I didnt have much time tonight so i will do some more tests in a few more places but so far all seems OK.

Thanks very much for your comment which has prompted me to double check the frame. I work in an industry where safety is a huge priority so I always very much appreciate it when someone takes time to double check on safety items.


The bottom loop, I didnt check it before because it looked so good



You can just see 4 or 5 punch marks, I will do some more when I have a bit more time.

The spokes should be double butted.
Mark

Thanks Mark, your encyclopedic knowledge of these bikes is impressive.

I will find some double butted spokes. I may have to get them from the USA because the spoke suppliers I have tried so far tell me that butted and double butted spokes are only available from them in stainless which I dont want.

Thanks everyone so far you have all been a great help.

John

[MMasa]

The spokes should be double butted.
Mark

[Robert Luland]

John, those frames rot from the inside out. You want to use a regular center punch with a ballpeen hammer. I mean give that lower loop a couple of good shots in different areas. Just because it looks good on the out side doesn't mean so on the inside. Your life could depend on it. I had one in the shop last summer that looked beautiful. The center punch when right though. There wasn't but a 1/16 of an inch of material left in that bottom loop. Bob L

[TechNoir]

Another quick update on todays progress. I managed to get a bit of time to finish cleaning down the frame and forks. I got my automatic centre punch out and tried it in a few of the worst pits and frame and forks seem sound.



I stripped the rear hub down and was pleased to see it full of fossilised grease. The cups and cones and spindle all seem good as do the same components on the front that I cleaned down a little while ago.

The same can not be said for the head bearings. See pictures






Next job is to order new head bearings and also some fork rocker bushes. While I wait for them to come I will finish cleaning up small parts.

I still have an unanswered question.

The parts book says 9 gauge spokes and I assume that they are plain spokes, not double diameter or centre reduced? Looking at my rear wheel the spokes are all tapered, I assume that this is just caused by rust and not in fact because they were double diameter spokes?



John

[Shaky Jake]

Beautiful bike, sir, and a great project. I'll be looking forward to following your progress. Nice work on the handle bars. Sometimes it's a balance of patience and force.


Kevin

.

[TechNoir]

Re: 1920 Harley Model F

I am running parallel threads on this bike on here and caimag so In the interests of keeping them both roughly at the same point here is a small update. Someone on caimag commented that they were not sure that the brake should have a hand lever. I pointed out that it was an optional extra and posted the following extracts which I think the guys on here might find of interest too.

The bike came with a 1920 brochure. It is in such good condition that at first I thought it was a reproduction but then I found the cover letter that was in worse condition. Here is the letter (address redacted) plus some extracts from the brochure. I am sure you might find it of interest.









A small update on today’s progress.

I spent a few hours today sorting and cleaning parts. I noticed that the 2 footboards that were on the bike in the 1988 pictures are corroded at the edges with some of the edges rusted away. There are 2 replacements that are in better condition that I will use. When taking a closer look at them I note that the 2 original boards have remnants of green paint on them but the replacements have remnants of gray paint. I assume that the guy who sourced the spares that came with the bike must have got a batch of pre-1917 stuff.

I have been putting ATF & acetone on the stuck handlebars for 3 days now so I found a stouter block of wood and a bigger, 4 pound, hammer and gave the bars some hefty blows and lo and behold they moved. That was easier than I expected!

I can get on with the forks now and finish off cleaning the frame up. When it is clean I will check the tubes to see how sound they are.