Motorcycle Cannonball Miscellany

[Tommo]

Phil
Flat belts are different as far as ratio changes go. The only way you can change ratios is by changing one or other of the pulley sizes.
Belt slip is just the same as with Vee belts and is a no no.
In posting this I can hear my Grandfather yelling at me to go and stop the belt slip in our Shearing Shed.
Papa broke his back when a horse rolled on him in 1936 and although he couldn't walk he still supervised all the major operations on the farm and during shearing time if he heard the slightest squeek from the flat belt driving the overhead shafting I would be sent running to the engine room to dress the belt. It's funny what brings certain memories back.
One of the things that cloud this belt slip issue is modern materials that are designed to get sticky by melting slightly when slip occurs, Twist and go scooters, combine harvester variable speed drives, etc, and in doing so stop belt slip.
If someone is lucky enough to find one of these type of belts that suits his machine, then he has a much easier ride than someone using an old traditional style leather belt.
There's so much to tell about these old belt drive systems and there's probably fewer and fewer of us silly old buggers that used them in our daily work around now.

[fillibuster]

Thanks again Tommo.
My first belt acquaintance came with threshing machines, then the v-belts. The riveted flat belts are still found on modern equipment (like rolller mills) with small torque loads.
Again, I want a close-up of the 07 J A P ... Is there a tensioning snubber pulley to engage?
Or does she push the engine from standing to running as in direct drive 100%?
I'm really itching to see more of the class I leaders!

[HarleyCreation]

Belt Stuff...

Tommo,

Thanks. That helps a lot. Dumb me forgot about pedal assist but of course early bikes had that ability. I guess the Harley belt-tightener was just that. No slipping belt clutch effect where it would matter most. I knew the flat belt riders couldn't couldn't stop and change gear ratios. This early belt riding stuff is a lost art.

In the early accounts I've seen mention many times of "rushing a hill" as you said and that would have been another reason why early motorcycles were hated so much.

Imagine a farmer going uphill with a horse-drawn wagon with crates of eggs and some demonical motorcycle rider with his cut-out and throttle wide open tries to get past him because he dare not slow down else he lose momentum and punk out on the hill. The horse would likely bolt and all hell would break loose while the motorcycle goes its merry way.

That's my scenario anyhow...

I see today over to the Cannonball site that Kafton on his 1912 Harley belt single copped a ride over Magazine Mountain in another bike's sidecar. That also helps answer the nagging question of how the flat belt single speeds are negotiating the big bad hills. That hasn't been talked about too much but it interests me. They'll be on plains now, but more mountains loom ahead.

I too would like to see more of the 1907 J A P belt system. Must have been a good one for the day.

[Tommo]

From the few photos I've seen I'd say Katrin's J A P is fixed engine and as such the only way to stop progress is to stop the engine.
There will be no form of tensioner between the front and rear pulleys and I can't think of any non-American belt drive bike that had any form of belt tensioner.
I've got to get my 1911 fixed engine Douglas out for a rally next weekend so I'll take some photos of the drive system and get them posted.

[marsh1915hd]

I have a 1904 MARSH that is flat belt drive. The rear wheel is wooden, all out of the same piece, with the belt bed build into the wheel. Axl Rod had it at Davenport for years. I need a front wooden wheel for it. Have a bike one but it's not the right one. They were wider that bikes.
It has a tensioner but it is adjustable only if the motor is shut off.
Any parts for a MARSH? I found a fork and front part of the frame at Davenport, so now i am building two. Found a motor case at Oley last year.

[HarleyCreation]

Probably the belt-tightener was one reason that Harley gained early popularity. With it riders had the option to "drop the belt" and more importantly to instantly tighten it as on-the-road conditions demanded.

Some of our earliest bikes like the 1901 Mitchell and some others used a twisted rawhide belt in a fixed direct-drive system. Seems like I read about those jobs that if the belt got loose they would take it off and give it a few more twists and then put it back on. Sounds primitive to me.

Direct-drive was the norm. Traffic, farm wagons, animals, children -- no matter -- you just kept going like a cannonball full speed ahead!

[Tommo]

This may help some of you to understand how the basic front pulley on a vee belt system works.
I got this out of "Motorcycles, Side Cars and Cyclecars by Victor Page, 1918 edition.
This is a cracker of a book if you're interested in pre 1915 bikes, (originally written in 1914) it covers both English and American motorcycles but covers more USA stuff as it was printed in New York and written by an American.
Belt pulley design0001.jpg

[Tommo]

Herb,
The early chain drive machines, especially those of large capacity and long stroke, had trouble with the power pulses breaking the chain. A belt had the ability to absorb those pulses by streching slightly and slipping.
As far as road machines go it wasn't until the likes of Royal Enfield bought out a form of drive that absorbed the power pulse that the use of chain drives became more reliable.
Shock or Cush drive systems appeared very early in the development and this bought about the demise of the belt.

[wlwood]

I know there's been a lot of interest here about the singles in the Motorcycle Cannonball, so I've tried to do an update on as many of them as possible after yesterday's 277-mile stage from Fort Smith, Arkansas, to Lawton, Oklahoma. It was the second-longest day of the coast-to-coast ride, and amazingly, every one of the singles that began the day finished it.

Here's a link: http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/ind...t01returnid=97

[LouieMCman]

I have a small single flat belt drive machine (1916 Miami) and can't imagine pulling a 4 or 6 mile grade without pedaling a good bit of the way. What those two class 1 singles are doing is amazing. They are my heroes of the ride so far. I think if they continue to do as well as they are now, they should be the winners. I knwo they are a few miles behind but they should be given some kind of consideration for what they are riding. How can you compare a single belt drive with a twin three speed???

[Greg H]

Agree, winner rules do seem harsh regards class 1

[Eddie G]

Hey Louie,9:52 am are you working or just on morning break? Never mind Ithink we know the answer to that one.

[c.o.]

Have you folks seen the trophy? It's a class 1 bike if I ever saw one...........

http://jeffdeckerstudio.blogspot.com...ball-2010.html

[LouieMCman]

very cool trophy!

[Tom Lovejoy]

Yep those single guy's and Girl's are hero's for sure, hat's off to em. Hope to meet them and the rest in a few day's. Two Excelsior's in the lead for the point's right now, that is soo fricking cool !Keep the updates coming, well done!