!914 Twin HD Cannon ball request

[c.o.]

Alright....alright... I'm awake.......

[Slojo]

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[Slojo]

Are you sitting down?

Where do I start?
With great difficulty I must report that many of the parts coming in are not of good quality.
1) I have possessed the gas tanks for a couple months and have determined them lacking. They have excellent finish yet we all know there is another part of that equation and that is fit. Fit is something these tanks don't do yet original tanks fit perfectly on my frame. This is the second set of tanks made for this bike both with basically the same problems.
2) The cam chest I purchased sight un-seen was sold to me as "HD JD 1915/16 only Gear-chest in V.G.C. w/oil pump Gear and Idler" Once cleaned up it was found full of cracks all around the pinion gear area caused by excess flywheel end play which allowed the pinion shaft and gear to bounce off the gear chest and cause the dammage in the chest (the defect went undetected in the grimy condition the cover when sent). The seller, who has always had a stellar reputation insulted me and then said either send back the cover or send the check (he did allow me a couple weeks duration to attempt to locate another chest before the final insulate and demand, apparently he has another buyer waiting for the same part forcing my hand in the deal). Personally I have no problem paying for my parts but when the parts are not as advertised and I am left with another option that is still in process a little more consideration than what was offered would not be asking to much. Now left without an option I was forced to purchase the defective part or risk being empty handed if the other seller can not produce the part he thinks he has but has not located yet.
3) Rims and spokes, this is what has pushed me over the edge and prompted this negative post (sorry).
I ordered from Buchanan's a custom set of spokes and Sun rims. Kenny Buchanan who was very helpful and polite worked directly with me and advised me on which rims would work best for my application. He was well informed this bike was a 1914 Harley being fully restored for the Cannonball Rally and much detail of this bike and my building and machining background was discussed over several phone conversations.
Based on Kenny's advise the 21 inch Sun rims were ordered with spokes custom made for the application (Buchanan's also manufactures the Sun rims in house). Two weeks later (in timely fashion) the Buchanan shipment arrived. Without haste one box of two was opened to find the 21X1.85 Sun front rim.
These rims were described as the best rims available fully machined and round within .005". I have not measured them because to look at them alone was enough to make me sick.
Immediately a difficult call was placed to Kenny Buchanan and he was informed of my disappointment with the finish on these rims and that they looked like they were machined in a third world machine shop. Remember, after 33 years in the field of manufacturing and machine repair I know what is acceptable in a finish and what it takes to achieve an appropriate finish and profile.
Kenny asked me to check the date code on the rim, when I did he explained the rims were machined on an old Hitachi Seki CNC Lathe which is no longer in the shop. He also said the Hitachi Seki CNC Lathe had bad spindle bearings and was replaced with a Hass CNC lathe. Both rims received are from the bad batch or rims run on the old machine and they have many more of these rims to sell before they will make a new run of this particular rim. He did not offer any solution to my issue and when I asked him for the profile dimensions so I could re-machine the rims outer finish he refused.
I am now left with the decision to either reverse engineer the rim profile make up a program and special tooling, then re-machine these blemished rims in an outside shop with the capacity to handle this large diameter rim or use alternative rims. If an alternative rim is used new spokes will need to be made, who else makes spokes? Will I get a refund on this scrap metal or will I have to absorb the cost and throw the rims in the scrap pile with many of the other parts I have spent good money on?
I don't expect anything more than a fair hand shake when doing business. A good deal is when both parties are happy. Should I say, screw me once sham on you, screw me twice shame on me. Made in the USA and quality control no longer has meaning at Buchanan's. If it fits in a box ship it.
Understand, these wheels would probably be perfectly acceptable on an old dirt bike thrashing trough rough terrain but not my bike and not at nearly $600. for two rims and two sets of spokes.
After discussing this issue with a friend he checked his newly installed 21X2.25 sun rim on his bike and said it had an excellent finish, apparently the new machine is doing a good job.
Joe 3-31-2010

[c.o.]

Joe.... I was sitting down and I hate to hear such stories. Sometimes one is forced to buy repop if availability of said part or time is a factor on a finished bike. There is nothing more frustrating than forking over hard earned money to get a less than satisfactory product. I feel for ya man it's too bad some of these outfits didn't take a little more pride in the products they sell. I find myself longing for the days of old when workmanship meant something.

[chas]

Indifferent, misleading, or ignorant customer service will kill any organization, eventually.
Any one who knows you knows your sense of Quality as Pirsig would put it.
How about photos of the parts you refer to so we may all learn?

[Lonnie]

Irony

Joe, the irony is that Buchanon told you that they would not produce or ship any rims off the new machine until the older rims, apparantly produced with no quality control or quality assurance process, are sold out, yet your friend has a set that seem to be spot-on! This means that either they have "good" rims to sell in their warehouse and they have no warehouse controls (first in, first out) and or that their older machine was allowed to deteriorate and produce junk until they could afford a new one. It would seem that the Buchanon Company has problems aplenty. These are basic issues that a company that has been around as long as they have been should have put behind them years ago.

I was going to order a set of spokes to lace a 19" VL rim to a star hub from them, but I will pursue other options at this point.

Sorry to hear of your problems, we can all sympathize since we have all been screwed in this hobby at some point in time.

[Slojo]

Joe, the irony is that Buchanon told you that they would not produce or ship any rims off the new machine until the older rims, apparantly produced with no quality control or quality assurance process, are sold out, yet your friend has a set that seem to be spot-on! This means that either they have "good" rims to sell in their warehouse and they have no warehouse controls (first in, first out) and or that their older machine was allowed to deteriorate and produce junk until they could afford a new one. It would seem that the Buchanon Company has problems aplenty. These are basic issues that a company that has been around as long as they have been should have put behind them years ago.

I was going to order a set of spokes to lace a 19" VL rim to a star hub from them, but I will pursue other options at this point.

Sorry to hear of your problems, we can all sympathize since we have all been screwed in this hobby at some point in time.

Lonnie
The rim my friend has on his bike is a 21X2.25 not a 21X1.85 (the size I am using) they are two different batch runs, therefore subject to alternative set ups and runs perhaps by a more astute programmer and or operator willing to take the necessary steps to ensure quality products. Another machine operator can make all the difference in the world within the same machining environment. I am sure that the old machine is mostly at fault yet it should have been repaired or replaced when quality suffered. Personally I would not allow this type of work to be produced in my shop nor would I allow it to ship out. What an embarrassment to Buchanan for their willingness to produce and ship this third world quality product.
Joe

[Slojo]

Cory Charley
Thanks for chimming in, photos will be posted later tonight perhaps. I am unsure if the camera will pick up surface finish, I will do my best.
Joe

[BNSONS]

Joe
Sorry to hear about your difficulties with Buchanan & alerting people about the problem. But who was the tank vendor with the subpar product or the cam chest vendor that you dealt with? If you're dissatisfied do us a favor & put all three names out there.

Dave (BNSONS)
Bustamante & Sons #5189

[Slojo]

[QUOTE=BNSONS;93612]Joe
Sorry to hear about your difficulties with Buchanan & alerting people about the problem. But who was the tank vendor with the subpar product or the cam chest vendor that you dealt with? If you're dissatisfied do us a favor & put all three names out there.

Dave (BNSONS)
Bustamante & Sons #5189[/QUO

Dave
I do not want this article to be a forum of negativity, damage and destruction I would rather report on those who are a positive force within our circle of motorcycle enthusiasts. Why Buchanan? Circumstances, Its complicated. The other two venders are typically good and did not purposely send out sub standard quality. I may still have some recourse with them.
Joe

[BNSONS]

[QUOTE=Slojo;93613]

Joe
Sorry to hear about your difficulties with Buchanan & alerting people about the problem. But who was the tank vendor with the subpar product or the cam chest vendor that you dealt with? If you're dissatisfied do us a favor & put all three names out there.

Dave (BNSONS)
Bustamante & Sons #5189[/QUO

Dave
I do not want this article to be a forum of negativity, damage and destruction I would rather report on those who are a positive force within our circle of motorcycle enthusiasts. Why Buchanan? Circumstances, Its complicated. The other two venders are typically good and did not purposely send out sub standard quality. I may still have some recourse with them.
Joe

Joe
Fair enough I'm glad you still might have recourse with two out of three. If people did right with others hard-earned money there wouldn't be any negativty.

Dave

[rwm]

joe if you paid by credit card you have recourse.it's just sad to hear another vender says *&^$# quality

[Slojo]

Front Fork, the light at the end of the tunnel.

It is late photos will have to wait. Progress on the front end mod's are near completion and tomorrow if all goes well Tony the tigger will complete the remaining welds on the front end mod's and updates.
I made a run into Dearborn to pick up some brake shackle studs from Dearborn Dave. Dave has helped me out for many years with parts and this time he donated the two studs and two nuts for the cause, Thank you Dave. While I was at Dave's he also threw in some tasty bright green with yellow marker cloth casing spark plug wire for my silver dual carb pan ahh... more green touches. Did I ever tell you Green is my color? Ya so what. Dave also informed me of his bolt supplier who still has some old stock hardware. Perhaps tomorrow will be another road trip day to check into this hardware source. It hit 80 degrees F. today a new Michigan worlds record temp. for today. Thank God for global warming. With Michigan frost laws possibly in effect tomorrows road trip may require wheel restriction. How many bolts can I carry in those saddle bags?
Joe 4-1-2010

[chas]

Hi Joe, In terms of showing the surface finish, I find illumination with a bright light, held at a very shallow angle works on many parts. Skip all other lighting as it will wash out the surface irregularities, Charlie-the-thrifty-engineer

[Slojo]

Before everybody gives up on me I thought it would be wise to bring you up to speed. About a dozen photos and a few new videos are about to be loaded on this site and You Tube. For all my You Tube videos (boring as they are) you can search You Tube for, slojovideo , every video on this 1914 Gray Ghost Rider project are available for your viewing.
Let see since my last report. Rims... a few of the following photos of the sun rims will demonstrate the poor finish of the rim defining my dissatisfaction. Take note of the tool marks and the Scotch Brite polished surface over the tool marks attempting to smooth them out. Buchanan knew their machine was in bad condition and continued to make these rims on it. I guess for the dirt bikes these rims were intended for substandard finishes are acceptable, not for my bike am I to picky?
I have another set of 40 hole rims on order and a 36 hole rim on the way, these are the profile rims Harley uses on their 21 inch wheels. The problem with these rims are they come only chrome plated and must be striped. Also the rims are curently available in only 40 hole type for Harley's use. In the past the manufacturer of this particular rim sold it for dirt bikes wheels with 36 holes (36 hole rim is required for the Honda front hub that I have chosen for this project). These rims are no longer available unless you are lucky enough to have a good friend who stocked up on them when they were available. He had one left and has sent it my way. Meanwhile Eric Dunk, Iron Block Harley Davidson New York (another cannonballer entrant) is setting me up with the 40 hole rear rim.
Tony the tigger showed Friday morning and silver brazed the brake shackle stay on the fork. He also silver brazed small reinforcing patch plates on the inside of the front fender at the crease for the fork cut out where they are prone to breaking. The spring fork milled guide slots where the spring plunger runs also has a tendency of breaking, so some stylish sleeves were made and silver brazed into place to prevent this failure on the run.
I returned to the CNC lathe to finish the program and set up for making fillester head screws. When first test running the machine I forgot to shorten the bar-stock, (about 18 to 24 inches was hanging out the back end of the spindle). When I started the spindle the excess bar hanging out the back bent and whipped the tail end of the machine. OUCH fortunately this time only sheet metal damage occurred. I have seen and repaired customers machines in the past where spindles were bent for the exact same mistake. As luck would have it with only a 3/8 bar, just superficial damage took place.
Cory must be busy working on his 48 pan, photos will be posted when he finishes his work. Thank you Cory.
See slojovideo You Tube http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...lojovideo&aq=f 100_7086.MOV 100_7145.MOV
Joe 4-3-2010