Otis Chandler "1907" Harley in Fall Issue

[HarleyCreation]

This early Harley stuff is not only confused by all the bad information and false claims out there, but here we are working under the disadvantage of viewing very old and/or low resolution images where only the obvious stuff can be easily discerned. In spite of that we've made a lot of progress understanding Harley's origin years. This thread has taught me a few new things.

[LouieMCman]

I know this thread is extremely long but I just to post this.....the one and only! And it could be YOURS!

1903 Harley-Davidson : Strap Tank FIRST MODEL Ebay Item number: 250049695122

[jurassic]

eeeehhh

oh man,................for once i am speechless.

[c.o.]

Is it just me or are these machines almost as easy to find now as say...............an '06 Heritage Softail........... Thanks Louie for finding yet again another piece to talk about.......

[petri]

This is fascinating alright. There seems to be more and more of these "too good to be true" rare Harleys appearing out of nowhere. There are a lot of pictures of this one, very professional looking pictures too. So what do our experts have to say about this one, made with "some original parts"?! Herb, Earl, others, I can't wait to hear. If this keeps up this thread will be able to go on indefinitely. What a great way to start off the long winter.

Howard

[jurassic]

who cares,i want one,anyone wanna buy a house........

[c.o.]

Your right jurassic it would be cool to have one.........only one thing missing though...........the priceless pre-twenties dust........

[jurassic]

dust

well there is actually a price on that dust,it is reported that harleys NO. 1 is insured for a million bucks,and you can pick up this bike for a measley 150,000. , or so the ad says,and wouldn't it be fun to add you own dust at top speed,and save 850,000.

[c.o.]

Yes it certainly would be fun and a might more economical too..........but I'm a bit of a s*cker for the real deal (I'm a dreamer I guess)

I'm thinking I'd like to spend some time buildin' me a time machine so I can go back and figure out all the little particulars for this thread Plus stash a couple originals in hard to find places for all of us to scrutinize

[jurassic]

time machine

yes i too have been working on that time machine,but only to look over walter and bills shoulder as they made history,or to be on the beach when glenn curtiss made his run,or to look on as eddie flew into the stands on that fateful day.its really all about having that engine and only 2 wheels.i mean its a motorcycle man.whether its my bridgestone minibike or my 15 harley or my big base indian 8 valve,i still love it,i love motorcycles,and isn't that what this 1903 bike really is ,is a time machine.where you have the opportunity to see ,touch and smell it,and for some, possibly own it.i remember i time not so long ago when most of us were going gaga over pete gagans wonderful pennington replica.and pete was also brave enough to risk rubbing elbows with those rich and famous people who are "ruining our hobby" at halfmoon bay so i could see ,touch and smell a honest to god pennington.an oppotunity i otherwise would have never gotten.just dont forget it is a motorcycle,and a dang nice one,and thats why all of us are here .

[c.o.]

Well put for sure jurassic............but I have to admit I am hopelessly addicted to faded paint and rust Not much is gonna change that, but I do think a well put together replica is worthy of some attention too. 8 valver huh? Well if your so inclined it would be nice to hear a story on that one.......but that's probably for another thread.......hint.......hint........ I see your '15 H-D is for sale.......it would be fun to put some dust on that baby.........

[silentgreyfello]

Response to the pundits

I just heard that there was a thread going on regarding the "fake" bike that I have on ebay. I will start from the beginning... this bike has some original parts on it and more repop parts. I was vague in the ebay description for one reason, Mr. Wagner: trademark infringement. Ever heard of it???? While a lot of the parts are new, I didn't want to attract too much attention. It was not to deceive anyone. Second, I have answered the emails of those interested. For here, I will be vague, but if you want to contact me and discuss it, go ahead!

Now, to my bike. It took over ten years on my part and mostly others to make the pieces on this bike. It is what I believe is 100% correct (though mostly "FAKE"). I was at the Nebraska auction to see the Bonger bike in 1993. I flew to Texas in 1999 to take more detailed photos of it. It now resides in a museum in Sturgis. I saw the Calidona bike when Marinico brokered it from Caladona to the guy in NY and long before it went back to be restored by Chandler. They claim that they found some of the orig parts... That is all BS. The bike has some repop parts on it. I don't hear anyone mouthing it. I flew to the HD museum in York, PA to study their '08. Iowa to photo the bike which is now in the JP Anamosa museum. Minnesota to see an orig 1907 with early Sager fork. I have seen other projects, most more complete than mine. I have recorded the serial numbers to make sense of it all. All this to make sure that my "replica" is 100% correct. As for the guy that said mine was not correct about the "modern tank transfers" and the "lower leg being nickeled", he should take a closer look. The tank was painted with a stencil, and then hand striped with red, as the originals were. The lower leg of the rear fork was indeed supposed to be nickeled. (see the Bonger bike). The Chandler bike was incorrectly restored in this aspect. The early photo of Walter on the '07 (others have claimed '06) shows the rear leg completely nickeled, with the early Sager fork. The later Sager, like mine, is nickeled just on the lower portion. As for the carb, it is smooth in portions, rough in others. This is no different than the Bonger bike that has never had anything done to it except the rear fender support replace many, many years ago. Let me tell you, there are many, many bikes at the meets that are not completely original. There are more board track racers now than there were 90 years ago. And for Indian chiefs, well we all know that story too. What about '10 harleys... I know two guys that have 20 between them and lots of replica parts on every one! What about that long-haired hippy that is so well reknowned in the club driving his "real" 05 to Milwaukee, writeups in the mag, racing at the museum in Alabama? You think that is all real? BS. What about the prez of this club and his Orient, Blackhawk, etc. ARE they all real? I KNOW not. I could go on and on, but I don't find fault with these guys, they love old bikes like me, put them together, ride them. It just pisses me off that you have some old crotchety guys looking down on everybody that makes a bike go with either a little or a lot of repop parts. Where do we draw the line? Moral of the story, don't throw rocks in glass houses! But I digress.

I now believe that the Bonger, York, and Anamosa bike are all 1908's based on what I have read here. Ribbed, wider fenders, front fuel fillers (I think this could be a mid 1907 change), later Sager fork. There is what I believe to be a 1907 with the earlier Sager fork, rounded tank with front filler, 8 bolt motor. The bike is 90% complete and all REAL though most of the paint gone. That is why I think the front filler is a mid-1907 change, not Jan 1, 1908. Most companies didn't throw anything away at the end of the year. They used up their inventory rather than waste it. As for the serial numbers of these bikes... ah, the heck with it. Do your own research.

Now back to the auction thing... I read somewhere that I showed up and screwed up the auction and they through me out. That is completely false. First, I did show up at the auction after most were already in on Saturday. NOBODY from the Chandler group even talked to me. After the auction was 90% done, I asked a security guard if I could park my bike near the exit. He said yes. So I parked near the exit. As for my bike bringing down the auction price, well, I don't think that is true either. The bidding went to $352,000 with two car guys being the last bidders. I talked to the new owner of the Chandler bike to see if he wanted pictures of the bike when Caladono owned it. I had some in my truck. He acted as though he didn't care one way or another, but I gave him the photos. He looked at my bike and asked "Why don't you restore it?" He doesn't get the "patina" thing or the original paint thing. He wanted something to put in an empty corner between his airplanes and cars. I am kidding you not! He had no idea what he just bought!! Anyway, if my bike detracted from the bidding, why wasn't there a crowd running to me to buy my bike for 200k or whatever the figure someone brought up, after the Chandler brought $352k? I am waiting for an answer.......... Could it be that not many saw it before the auction? Just maybe?

To end this rambling, I would invite Mr. Waginer to kiss my backside. I would suggest you find out the facts before blowing out bs. I am only an email or phone call away.

Jim Hoffman
AMCA 3507
oldmtrcyc@msn.com
If you have a roster, you have my phone number.

[jurassic]

o

i must admit that i was the one to introduce the" chandler pickup truck incident",and do apoligize.as i heard the story second and third hand,and was not there.i am glad someone finally brought up the piont we have all been dancing around.that somewhere there is some nerd in some office building that gets paid to sue the japs for the sound there exhaust makes .and close down independent shops for having a bar and shield on their t-shirts.what is his stand on this recent development??i mean half of the ugly choppers i see at the rallys that have harley davidson on the tank,never saw milwaukee,is there a difference?who's to blame?the guy who built it,the guy who paints it ,the guy who builds the engine,the foundry,the guy who pays 150,000.00 for it??the recent "1903" for sale ,claims "factory recognized",whats the story really?

[B. Rodencal]

I have had a fun time following this thread, and I have had nothing malicious to say about you your bike or anyone involved. All I can say is when everyone was questioning 07 or 08 I was questioning the century it was from. Real=Real, remanufactured = remanufactured, but both =fun! I admire the fact someone finally asked on ebay and even greater than that ...your honesty. I wish you the best of luck selling your bike.

[exeric]

The letter from silentgreyfello was very eloquently written, as were the observations of Herb and Earl. I think we are all passionate about this wonderful hobby, so it's easy to get caught up in that passion. I would again like to say that this has been the (hands down) most educational topic I have ever seen on this forum so I hope a little controversy doesn't dissuade anyone from saying what they think.