1965 Panhead Book Project

[rbenash]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for joining in. Regarding the gold piping. The Super-Soft Buddy Seat, 52507-65A was black over white with black piping. The 52506-65A was white over white with white piping. This can be verified on page 22 of the 1965 Accessory Catalog. That page is in color and gives a pretty reasonable set of reference pictures. There was also a red over white seat cover version, as well. Most important is the surface -- it is smooth. The ribbed and thatched seats came in the Shovelhead era.

Hope this helps.

It does create some more discussion ;-)

My original 65 accessory catalog only shows the red over white supersoft. It does show gold piping. You have to look close. It's odd that they show red/white in the photo but the part numbers only show black/white and white/white. No reference to the piping color in the description, but the only model shown has gold piping. I also have a 1965 color brochure that does show the black/white seat with white piping.

I have the original seat from my '65 that is all white. It has gold piping like the red/white shown in the accessory book. I also have another all white stamped underneath as '65 and it has the gold piping. I have talked with a number of folks over the last 6 years of research and parts collecting specific to '65 and they also have told me that the all white seat had the gold piping and because of that it was rare or hard to find. I have only found that one I mention above during the time spent looking.

I definitely would like to see this put to rest. If it's not accurate.

Everything I have come to know says that the '65 white/white seat had gold piping along with the original seat that was on mine when I got it. And to that end it meant that the white/white '65 supersoft was a one year seat. I am the fourth owner and first saw the bike in '67 and it had this white seat with gold piping that I still have. The threading on this seat rotted over the years and came apart setting of my research and search for another. My bike is hi-fi blue and this all white seat goes well with it. The black/white seat has been relatively easier to find and I often thought to just settle for that since it did not have this key difference. Haven't seen all that many of those for sale either though.

Ultimately it would be good to know if being judged and you have a white/white smooth vinyl supersoft if you would get points off if you didn't have the gold piping.

[rbenash]

Hi Ray,

Thanks for joining in. Regarding the gold piping. The Super-Soft Buddy Seat, 52507-65A was black over white with black piping. The 52506-65A was white over white with white piping. This can be verified on page 22 of the 1965 Accessory Catalog. That page is in color and gives a pretty reasonable set of reference pictures. There was also a red over white seat cover version, as well. Most important is the surface -- it is smooth. The ribbed and thatched seats came in the Shovelhead era.

Hope this helps.

It does create some more discussion ;-)

My original 65 accessory catalog only shows the red over white supersoft. It does show gold piping. You have to look close. It's odd that the show red/white in the photo but the part numbers only show black/white and white/white. No reference to the piping color in the description, but the only model shown has gold piping. I also have a 1965 color brochure that does show the black/white seat with white piping.

I have the original seat from my '65 that is all white. It has gold piping like the red/white shown in the accessory book. I also have another all white stamped underneath as '65 and it has the gold piping. I have talked with a number of folks over the last 6 years of research and parts collecting specific to '65 and they also have told me that the all white seat had the gold piping and because of that it was rare or hard to find. I have only found that one I mention above during the time spent looking.

I definitely would see this put to rest. If it's not accurate.

Everything I have come to know says that the '65 white/white seat had gold piping along with the original seat that was on mine when I got it. I am the fourth owner and first saw the bike in '67 and it had this white seat with gold piping that I still have. The threading on this seat rotted over the years and came apart setting of my research and search for another. My bike is hi-fi blue and this all white seat goes well with it. The black/white seat has been relatively easier to find and I often thought to just settle for that since it did not have this key difference. Haven't seen all that many of those for sale either though.

[Chris Haynes]

Remember that the 1965's did not have a cover on the side of the battery. Only on the top. Just a big ole black battery hangin' out.

[rbenash]

Hey George you also mention in you first article this topic example:

"I believe all 1965 Panheads had white solenoid covers."

My experience is that they are silver (grey). The '65 color sales brochure seems to support this along with some original '65 I've seen. I also have a pre AMF NOS original '65 cover in the factory packing -65 that is silver/gray. So curious to know if that topic was resolved and what the result/consensus is.

[rbenash]

Remember that the 1965's did not have a cover on the side of the battery. Only on the top. Just a big ole black battery hangin' out.

That's true. The 65' accessory catalog doesn't show the side cover either. But interestingly enough the 58-68 parts catalog I have shows the side cover as 66378-65 SIDE COVER, battery (chrome). And it shows if for years 65-* So since it's a -65 part I would suspect it shouldn't cost you anything if it's being judged and in general would be considered correct if you used it. Mine has one, don't know if it was added later but it's exactly like the one in the parts manual.

Have to check to see if this was actually included in the "chrome group".

This would make it easier in that you wouldn't have to try to find an all black original or original looking battery for a resto?

[gmarakas]

Hi Ray,

I'll look into it, for sure. My 65 accessory catalog appears to have red piping. My eyes aren't what they used to be but even under the magnifier, the piping looks to be red to me. I see something at the front of the seat that looks reflective but under the glass it appears to be a small reflection from the white below. Neither the white or black are shown but they are listed.

In looking at the 62 and 63 catalogs, though not in color, they both appear to have white piping on the white super soft picture. Whatever it is, it is definitely not white. It seems this way in the 64 catalog.

My white on white has white piping and my black on white has black piping. There are some seat experts on this forum and they would be the ones to explain all this. As far as judging, I had four 65s at Davenport. They all fared as expected and the Hi-Fi blue with the buddy seat did not lose points for the white piping. Perhaps when we get to the bottom of this one, one of us will be having some piping re-done.

I will add this to my list of questions for the archivists. In the meantime, maybe one of our seat experts will add some knowledge. Regardless, you have made yourself a contributor to the book. Thanks very much for that.

Cheers.

[gmarakas]

Hi Ray,

I just flipped through one of Greg Fields' book and found a black over white with gold piping on a 1960 Duo-Glide. I'll keep looking.

Later.

[rbenash]

George - sounds good if you can get some more corroborative detail. Both of my "gold" seats or in the loft above the garage right now for safe keeping. I have been running a '66 seat in the interim. Bike is in now for resto so will probably be pulling those seats out over the next couple months. If it's important I can pull them down sooner for pics.

I have two '65 accessory catalogs and with the glass I see gold on the red seat. It would be good to hear from the seat experts. It would also be good to find someone who has found or is making some good repro vinyl for pan head super softs!

[rbenash]

Hi Ray,

I just flipped through one of Greg Fields' book and found a black over white with gold piping on a 1960 Duo-Glide. I'll keep looking.

Later.

LOL! Have my Field's book out again as well

[gmarakas]

Wow, this is a hot night for this thread!

Ray, I have not solved the solenoid issue as of yet. I have pictures of off-white ones and black ones. Now I have to look for silver-gray ones, too

Chris is correct about the battery. The King of the Highway F-5 package lists a chrome battery cover. This does not suggest whether the side cover is included. The spare parts book shows the ribbed side cover as used from 65 on but the accessory catalog does not show the side cover. It does, however, show the top cover.

This will most likely turn out to be another of the mid-year ideas for the 65 that Harley is becoming quite famous for. As far as judging, all of my 65s have the ribbed chrome side cover in place and no points have ever been deducted.

In any event, it's on my list of questions.

[rbenash]

As far as the -65 battery side cover. This part does show up in the '67 accessory catalog. My bet is that it was a late '65 accessory, therefore the -65 part number. Probably will see this first in the '66 accessory catalog (haven't found one of these yet ) I wonder if it is shown in the 58-65 parts manual (wish I had one). My parts manual is 58-68 so will typically show some of the late -65 parts that may not have been available in the beginning of the year or late '64 during product intro of the first year Electra.

[gmarakas]

Ray,

I think I just found a red over white with some gold piping. It is on a late 65 factory photo. The piping is different than that shown in the accessory catalog. On this seat, the top is stitched with a single stitch and the piping is underneath. Other pictures I have show the piping on top. I even have a picture where there is no piping at all. May be a recover though since I can't verify the provenance of that one.

And the beat goes on...

[rbenash]

Yeah, now we can see why there needs to be a single book on '65!!! BTW, get your magnifying glass out and look at page 119 of Fields book for the gold piping on the red/white seat in the photo. And note - that bike also has the side battery cover

A number of the photos in Fields book though are not 100% original or correct. Have to be careful. But this one looks to be pretty accurate. Except for the polished timing cover.

[gmarakas]

That's the color version of the factory photo I spoke about. Looks like both of our piping is safe at last ;-)

[rbenash]

That's the color version of the factory photo I spoke about. Looks like both of our piping is safe at last ;-)

Whoa!! I'll have to dig out my B&W factory photo too. Need to see if it also has that polished timing cover. That's odd if it's on the factory photo for sure.