the first Harley's

[jurassic]

cory, i'll try and share as much as i can on this piece of harley history.thankfully the new owner is really excited about this engine ,and is willing to let me share this with some of the experts on this forum.the story he was told is that this engine was sold on ebay by the son of a southern california man in his 80's.this man and his family have been involved in the picture cars industry in hollywood for a long time. friends with bud ekins and his gang ,this man was drawn into the antique motorcycle scene ,as part of his business.he has said that he owned this 1908 motor for almost 50 years. one thing i really noticed is the quality of the casting on the davidson part of the lettering. interesting.

your eyes are not decieving you.i saw the same thing.it looks ,to me , like this was a poor casting on the lettering.perhaps a shift in the mold or maybe towards the end of this castings run. in later years they probably wouldn't have even used this case . i guess in 1908 they used everything.as evidenced by the slightly earlier cylinder.

[jurassic]

2037

here is a picture of the lettering on 2037 ,notice the N in davidson is a little funky

[silentgreyfello]

I don't think it would have been from the pattern wearing out, assuming they had only one pattern. Look at the photo of 2238, which is 17 bikes later than the motor you are working on, 2221. However, they could have had more than one pattern, but production was so small in 1907/8, would they have had more than one of these patterns? I think you eluded to a shift in the sandcast mold, which seems very reasonable. Or perhaps the sand didn't get packed into the pattern in this area or sand pulled out with the pattern. You are right... a small blem like that wouldn't constitute sending it to the scrap pile. We can only surmise!

I am eagerly awaiting the inside of this thing!!!

[Chris Haynes]

Perhaps the worn looking cases had been polished?

[jurassic]

you can definatly see signs of polishing on other parts of the case.

[jurassic]

now this is what i like to see, OIL! and the shaft is perfect. one thing i cant understand is how the pulley got so beat up ,yet the case around it is in nice shape.

[gary.h]

your eyes are not decieving you.i saw the same thing.it looks ,to me , like this was a poor casting on the lettering.perhaps a shift in the mold or maybe towards the end of this castings run. in later years they probably wouldn't have even used this case . i guess in 1908 they used everything.as evidenced by the slightly earlier cylinder.

i wonder if the individual that rode that machine which housed that motor was rubbing his boot on it while peddeling?????or is that a out to lunch theroy...sorry just wanting to learn.

[jurassic]

i am sure normal wear has alot to do with what we are seeing here,but the I and the D are definatly blended together, and they are no more worn down than the rest.the A in harley is the same heigth as the A in davidson.

[c.o.]

It's funny how I missed the closeness of the I and the D. I've only looked in awe at this motor and failed to notice the obvious. A slip in the casting is likely the most plausible cause for the letters to have blended. I wonder what the worker was thinking when he noticed the mistake? DOH!

[Barry Brown]

the first thing i noticed was the number on the inside of the intake manifold. early harley carbs had their own numbering system of 3 numbers.which ,from what i have seen, have no relation to the vin number on the engine.it appears that the intake manifold was also numbered like the carb.at least if a new carb is put on this engine ,we will know what to number it.

Am I hearing you right? you are going to stamp a repop carb to match?

[jurassic]

gosh,i dont know. what's the politically correct thing to do here?

[Barry Brown]

isn't it more about history than politics? I'm just a tad surprised that's all with all the preceding talk about serial numbers! I sure your client wants to enhance his investment. go for it, none of my business after all.

[Chris Haynes]

gosh,i dont know. what's the politically correct thing to do here?

The politically correct thing would be to restore the machine. If some parts are not available and quality reproductions must be used then so be it.
Remember in the club judging book it says, "Accurately reproduced parts count the same as original while judging a restored category. However, in judging an original condition category the part must be original."

[silentgreyfello]

Am I hearing you right? you are going to stamp a repop carb to match?

I'd stamp the carb in a heartbeat if it were mine. It is not the vin number, and not on the cases. If you don't stamp the carb, some blowhard will cut it down for not being stamped. Lonnie, I have a list of the original bikes vins and their respective carb numbers. There isn't a real pattern, but if you want it, let me know.

[HarleyCreation]

My 2 cents

gosh,i dont know. what's the politically correct thing to do here?

It's not my bike and I have no status as a judge or anything else, only my opinion.

It seems to me that if it's publically stated that a (replica?) carb has been stamped to match an original numbered manifold that would eliminate any future claims of duplicity, etc. This is certainly an important project and no mistake. The owner telling everyone up front what is going into it will eliminate any possible future controversy and put the bike in a class by itself with its own completely authentic part-old/part-new history.

That this motor surfaced is a miracle in itself. Any additional information where the motor came from? My hunch is that it was not sold in California in 1908.