the first Harley's

[Chris Haynes]

Have you guys seen this bike in person to question it's legitimacy? I'm very curious about all this stuff and your right Earl, it's time to start studying...... Where's Herb when ya need him?

I have seen it several times. Looks like the real deal. Right patina, scratches and dings. Not a restored piece.

[Chris Haynes]

Well at a quick glance scrolling up and down the page I see a difference in seat and pipes for sure.....possibly fork rockers but the image I posted is a little fuzzy. I'll have to find a better pic. I guess it's likely the museum machine has been messed with. I went through the '09 chapter in Herb's book but it doesn't let on to the bike's correctness. I also found a caption in "Classic Harley-Davidson" (which Herb co-wrote) that eludes to it being "the rarest of the rare".

They did build more than one.

[c.o.]

They did build more than one.

Yes....various reports say between 27 and 29 were built........

[Chris Haynes]

They were actually listed as a model in the 1909 Sales Brochure.

[c.o.]

They were actually listed as a model in the 1909 Sales Brochure.

Yup,the "Built on Honor" brochure. The Model 5-D and 5-F were listed. The MotorCo. took orders and never delivered.

[Earl]

[QUOTE=c.o.;83960]It's in the Milwaukee museum......




Can anybody close to the museum get a measurement of the wheelbase?

[HarleyCreation]

It is commonly thought that, that photo was taken in 1924. I say this because that negative number and negatives of several other teens and preteens machines are all together in between photos of the 1923/1924 models.

Yup, the pix of the "1906" (later 1905 now SNO#2) with the easily identifiable seat that was taken in the corner of the factory was made c1924 when they photographed the collection bikes on hand at that time. Not an early picture at all but often used as one.

[HarleyCreation]

Single not a Twin

Did any of the early straptank twins survive? I seem to recall reading an article that Herb wrote awhile back that said that possibly one example is still kicking around but I'm not positive on it.

If I remember correctly (and that's a big "if") I believe at that time I was going on a rumor (theory) I heard from a guy who had done some research years ago that Mr. Lang took an early twin with him to Florida. But now we KNOW for certain that the bike Mr. Lang took to Florida was Lonnie's dad's c1906 single.

So while the rumor was correct (that Mr. Lang took a bike to FL), the rumor bike had the wrong motor in it -- if I can put it that way.

[HarleyCreation]

Notice on the "1907" twin that it has the gas tank with the filler in the front. I thought it was determined that this was a feature of 1908?

That photo of the "1907" twin first appeared in a Dec. '07 issue of BWMCR mag. BUT in a mag from Feb. 1907 it was clearly stated that H-D had a TWIN at the Chicago motorcycle show, but with no photo of it.

Is the Dec. 07 twin pictured the Feb 07 bike (unpictured) with a few possible updates altho still running a rigid fork? Or did they build a new example?

[HarleyCreation]

Great thought Jurassic !!
What we've learned so far is that we need to question and investigate the early models ourselves, and not to believe something, just because the Factory said so.
It's hard to believe that HD would have a complete, intact, never changed 1909 model twin motorcycle for their collection. Possible, but not likely. Maybe we should start looking at this machine the same way we've studied other early models, by looking at original advertising and sales info, and period photographs.

I was told (2nd hand) that the 09 twin was assembled to look like it does now during the 1920s. This would fit the time frame when they photographed all the collection bikes and would have wanted an early twin example for that purpose.

However, I believe they had "parts" of this same 09 twin at the Factory much earlier. That is, sometime in the teens they mentioned having an 09 twin lying around.

But the 09 twin as configured now was NEVER built that way originally by H-D IMHO. It's got one big huge obvious flaw that I believe I see plus other anomalies.

[Chris Haynes]

I heard from a guy who had done some research years ago that Mr. Lang took an early twin with him to Florida. But now we KNOW for certain that the bike Mr. Lang took to Florida was Lonnie's dad's c1906 single.

I may have missed something. How do we know this for certain? I thought that bike was bought in to a FL swap meet by somebody who brought it in from another state. Color me confused.

[jurassic]

I may have missed something. How do we know this for certain? I thought that bike was bought in to a FL swap meet by somebody who brought it in from another state. Color me confused.

i understand your confusion,but you'll have to wait for herb to finish his biography to get the full story.very interesting stuff.also ,i believe ,some light has been shed on the fate of the prototype,which might have still existed as late as 1979,before being lost forever.

[c.o.]

O.K. I'm leaning toward thinking that this '09 is sitting in the wrong frame. If my memory serves me right the '09 had a wheelbase of 60 inches and was shortened again in '10 and maybe even again in '11 ??? Just a thought..... There are a few more differences but I'm not sure if there is just some artistic discrepancies between the drawing and the actual machine in the museum. The pic from the '09 New York show is the only one I have from the day and it's partially blocked by a single. So I haven't been able to deduce anything from it.

Chris, somewhere (possibly in this thread) there are a few clues on the origins of Lonnie Sr.'s machine. But jurassic has me wondering about the proto-type now!!! I can't wait to read the findings on this subject!!

[HarleyCreation]

I may have missed something. How do we know this for certain? I thought that bike was bought in to a FL swap meet by somebody who brought it in from another state. Color me confused.

Some of us had thought the end of the road had been reached on finding new stuff on Harley origins, but not so. A very old man related to an H-D founder turned up and filled in critical gaps and the thing took off again. If the club wants it, there could be a story about the greatest unsolved treasure hunt mystery puzzle in all of motorcycling involving both Lonnie's dad's green bike and the lost and still missing 1st ever Harley-Davidson motorcycle ever built. A story really beyond compare.

[flat-happy]

well mr wagner i would sure like to hear more about it. i like talking to old guys. most people don't have time for them today and that's why so much information is being lost. looking forward to more posts. thank you----stillman small. AMCA 12332