the first Harley's

[portagepan]

Walt Disney had it right. Fairytales sell! Got my latest enthusiast, and they go on about the 1954 anniversary date being wrong for some unknown reason. Maybe a time warp?
Mike

[HarleyCreation]

Actually the 1903 creation was not a motorcycle. The boys built an underpowered engine and strapped it onto a bicycle. It has been lost forever with no physical or photographic evidence of its existence.

That's the heart of the problem. Later H-D began claiming things for 1903 that never happened, and then pulled a fast one by saying they built and even sold their later REAL motorcycle at an impossibily early date. Various ads from the teens claim they had it built and on the market in 1901, 1902, or 1903!

None of those years are correct. The first evidence of a running H-D motorcycle doesn't appear until September of 1904.

[HarleyCreation]

Fascinating stuff guys. Keep it coming. Now, where is that 1903 photo of Walter with
with SNO #1...?

Waiting.........................Waiting........... ..............Waiting............................. ..



Oh ya, I forgot, it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! Or does it?


Hah! I had you there for a second didn't I. Is it just me or does this "SNO #1" phenomenon seem similar to a "religion"? There is no physical artifact that would prove that there ever was a "Holy Grail" or an "Ark" yet millions of people believe there was one because a certain church says so. Just as no physical artifact exists that would prove the existence of SNO #1 there are millions of people who believe it exists because Harley-Davidson says it does. They just built a cathedral to house it. And the Pope(Willy G)was there to bless it.

Those of us who don't believe every word the "Motor Co." says are sometimes treated like Heretics. Try to tell riders at a H.O.G. covention that their museum contains an artifact that isn't real. You might get a discussion going!

Just some thoughts I've had. I believe it is still allowed to have thoughts. Or is it?

Dick

Blind faith does say it all...

It is a shame that H-D decided to ignore the events of their birth as those events actually happened and were reported at the time. Plus actual photographic evidence of their real first motor and bike when they spend some $50 million on a HOG Museum.

To claim something grandiose without a single shread of real evidence doesn't give one much confidence in what else they might say. Esp. when there is a TON of evidence that shows the grandiose claim cannot be true. But it's good that a few of us know the facts. Like John Giorno said, all along there were old guys in the AMCA who grumbled about Harley's "1903" story because they were smart enough to know it didn't pass the "smell test" (as Ed Youngblood put it). I'm confident those old guys would appreciate what we've discovered and published even if H-D continues to get it wrong.

[exeric]

I'm guessing this was the end of the factory tour in 1938. It sure looks like a dead part of the factory floor and that the line-up was a reluctant concession to someone in the P.R. department. The carpet is a nice touch. Sorry to put a damper on this great discussion.

[exeric]

I found this picture in the March 1951 issue of Cycle. It accompanied the obituary of Arthur Davidson.

[pem]

Jurrasic, did you find any #1's stamped inside the Florida bike's cases? Just kinda curious. Maybe Perry's initials!

[jurassic]

the picture above is a picture of the cam cover and the cam and timer off of the florida bike.the new cam and timer on the right are correct for 1905, for reference.for along time i thought that the timer on the florida bike was just a mocked up magneto interupter,but actually it is a timer ,all cast and made to fit the harley cam cover perfect.but the coolest part is the modification that was done to the cam to accept this superior timer setup.this timer was obviously built to run,and was not just some mock up

[jurassic]

[jurassic]

thanks pete,thats the earliest picture i've seen of sno #1. they actually shipped it overseas on the eve of the war.wow.i like the caption under the photo too.interesting how they describe the bike in 1938.the bike looks almost the same as the 1963 pic.although the seat isn't ripped ,and it looks like it has tires.

[Chris Haynes]

Fascinating stuff guys. Keep it coming. Now, where is that 1903 photo of Walter with
with SNO #1...?

Waiting.........................Waiting........... ..............Waiting............................. ..



Oh ya, I forgot, it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! Or does it?


Hah! I had you there for a second didn't I. Is it just me or does this "SNO #1" phenomenon seem similar to a "religion"? There is no physical artifact that would prove that there ever was a "Holy Grail" or an "Ark" yet millions of people believe there was one because a certain church says so. Just as no physical artifact exists that would prove the existence of SNO #1 there are millions of people who believe it exists because Harley-Davidson says it does. They just built a cathedral to house it. And the Pope(Willy G)was there to bless it.

Those of us who don't believe every word the "Motor Co." says are sometimes treated like Heretics. Try to tell riders at a H.O.G. covention that their museum contains an artifact that isn't real. You might get a discussion going!

Just some thoughts I've had. I believe it is still allowed to have thoughts. Or is it?

Dick

Actually the 1903 creation was not a motorcycle. The boys built an underpowered engine and strapped it onto a bicycle. It has been lost forever with no physical or photographic evidence of its existence.

[exeric]

You must be Catholic Dick.

[pem]

Fascinating stuff guys. Keep it coming. Now, where is that 1903 photo of Walter with
with SNO #1...?

Waiting.........................Waiting........... ..............Waiting............................. ..



Oh ya, I forgot, it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! Or does it?


Hah! I had you there for a second didn't I. Is it just me or does this "SNO #1" phenomenon seem similar to a "religion"? There is no physical artifact that would prove that there ever was a "Holy Grail" or an "Ark" yet millions of people believe there was one because a certain church says so. Just as no physical artifact exists that would prove the existence of SNO #1 there are millions of people who believe it exists because Harley-Davidson says it does. They just built a cathedral to house it. And the Pope(Willy G)was there to bless it.

Those of us who don't believe every word the "Motor Co." says are sometimes treated like Heretics. Try to tell riders at a H.O.G. covention that their museum contains an artifact that isn't real. You might get a discussion going!

Just some thoughts I've had. I believe it is still allowed to have thoughts. Or is it?

Dick

[HarleyCreation]

Is this another picture of the bike taken in Holland in 1938?


Pete Reeves 860

Yes, that's the SNO #1 or Lobby Bike that Earl believes might be the same bike in the c1918 guy-kneeling-woodshed-photo. Here it is c1938, which to my knowledge is the earliest we see it in the H-D collection.

Since 1938 it has been variously labeled or described as a 1904, a 1903/1904, a 1903, and finally as "Serial Number One," the very FIRST Harley-Davidson motorcycle ever built and that never left the Factory from Day 1!

Now, in the new HOG Museum, it has apparently been relabeled once again, this time as a "c1903" model!

Hmm.....

[HarleyCreation]

I found it in the May 1951 Enthusiast.

Thanks for looking for the older c1938 photo. In it I believe it shows the "1904" (SNO #1) bike for the first time as a collection bike, and the "1905" (SNO #2), first seen as a collection bike c1924.

Notice in this c1951 photo the "1906" (w/8-stud motor) is not present. Does that mean it was a late post-1951 addition to the collection?

I put years in quotation marks because they are more like titles or nicknames than accurate model year descriptions.

There's my old and mighty 50FL on the right! (One just like it anyway).

[pete reeves]

Is this another picture of the bike taken in Holland in 1938?


Pete Reeves 860