the first Harley's

[jurassic]

here is the twin from the 09 catalog ,and the cover of herbs book.see any differences?

[c.o.]

Just the 1909 twin in the HD museum. Is it in the Milwaukee museum, or York, PA?

It's in the Milwaukee museum......

i believe that to be the oldest harley twin,but is it really a 1909??

Great thought Jurassic !!
What we've learned so far is that we need to question and investigate the early models ourselves, and not to believe something, just because the Factory said so.
It's hard to believe that HD would have a complete, intact, never changed 1909 model twin motorcycle for their collection. Possible, but not likely. Maybe we should start looking at this machine the same way we've studied other early models, by looking at original advertising and sales info, and period photographs.

O.K. now you guys have got my gears spinning...... Chris did mention that Harley started early on collecting examples of their work. They obviously missed out on the real early stuff. All you have to do is look at what they call their 1903 Serial No. 1 example. At least we know better. Now....wouldn't 1909 and 1910 be the only examples of flat tank/beehive powerplant machines? How long has their "1909" been in their possesion. Have you guys seen this bike in person to question it's legitimacy? I'm very curious about all this stuff and your right Earl, it's time to start studying...... Where's Herb when ya need him?

[Chris Haynes]

Great thought Jurassic !!
What we've learned so far is that we need to question and investigate the early models ourselves, and not to believe something, just because the Factory said so.
It's hard to believe that HD would have a complete, intact, never changed 1909 model twin motorcycle for their collection. Possible, but not likely. Maybe we should start looking at this machine the same way we've studied other early models, by looking at original advertising and sales info, and period photographs.

H-D started gathering machines for its museum in the mid teens. It is possible that the '09 prototype was still hangin' around.
The prototype Nova machines stayed in the prototype room for years. Then some executive ordered them destroyed. The museum curator at this time was a man named John Gadke. John just happened to be walking by the loading dock when he spotted two Nova's on a forklift headed for the shredding dumpster. He saved them. If not for that accidental observation the Nova's would not be in the museum today.

[Chris Haynes]

Not a 1907 twin. I don't know if he was involved in the 1911 twin that Bettencourt found in Iowa that he sold to Chandler. To my limited knowledge, there isn't a real pre-1909 twin in existance. Someone mentioned that somebody in Ohio? was making a replica early twin. It was posted on this website at one time. It would be cool to see the progress.

Notice on the "1907" twin that it has the gas tank with the filler in the front. I thought it was determined that this was a feature of 1908?

My mistake. I overlooked the word twin. The straptank Mike did was a single.

[Earl]

i believe that to be the oldest harley twin,but is it really a 1909??

Great thought Jurassic !!
What we've learned so far is that we need to question and investigate the early models ourselves, and not to believe something, just because the Factory said so.
It's hard to believe that HD would have a complete, intact, never changed 1909 model twin motorcycle for their collection. Possible, but not likely. Maybe we should start looking at this machine the same way we've studied other early models, by looking at original advertising and sales info, and period photographs.

[jurassic]

Just the 1909 twin in the HD museum. Is it in the Milwaukee museum, or York, PA?

i believe that to be the oldest harley twin,but is it really a 1909??

[silentgreyfello]

i doubt that any pre 1910 harley twins exist today.

Just the 1909 twin in the HD museum. Is it in the Milwaukee museum, or York, PA?

[silentgreyfello]

It was a '06 or '07. Turned out to be a stolen machine. Ask Mike and he will tell you all about it.

Chris, I think you are talking about the Gene Calidona bike that went to the east coast then back to the Chandler collection? It was stolen and recovered in CA, Calidona bought it, sold it to Vince M, then it went to the infamous Tony P on the east coast. It was confiscated because of tax evasion, sold on auction to Chandler, restored and then sold on his auction after his death. They called it a 1907, but it has been determined to be a 1908 (single). It now is in a car collector's stable. It was the guy's first motorcycle purchase... what a bike to buy! I talked to him at the Chandler auction. He wanted a motorcycle to put in the corner by who knows what. His wife liked it, so he bought it. BTW, Mike Parti did work on this bike when Calidona owned it. I got to see it at the Del Mar meet in San Diego when Vince owned it. At the time, it could be had for 110k. Oh, those were the days, eh?

[Chris Haynes]

Not a 1907 twin. I don't know if he was involved in the 1911 twin that Bettencourt found in Iowa that he sold to Chandler. To my limited knowledge, there isn't a real pre-1909 twin in existance. Someone mentioned that somebody in Ohio? was making a replica early twin. It was posted on this website at one time. It would be cool to see the progress.

Notice on the "1907" twin that it has the gas tank with the filler in the front. I thought it was determined that this was a feature of 1908?

It was a '06 or '07. Turned out to be a stolen machine. Ask Mike and he will tell you all about it.

[jurassic]

the strap tank that is in the HD collection,tagged 1908,has a toolbox under the battery box.the picture of the twin strap tank does not have a toolbox under the battery box.it is the coil box.i doubt that any pre 1910 harley twins exist today.

[c.o.]

Not a 1907 twin. I don't know if he was involved in the 1911 twin that Bettencourt found in Iowa that he sold to Chandler. To my limited knowledge, there isn't a real pre-1909 twin in existance. Someone mentioned that somebody in Ohio? was making a replica early twin. It was posted on this website at one time. It would be cool to see the progress.

Notice on the "1907" twin that it has the gas tank with the filler in the front. I thought it was determined that this was a feature of 1908?

'11 seems to be more logical. I believe that the MotorCo. has the only example of an '09 and there was only one twin ever built in 1910 (other than possibly racers). I wonder if it's still around? I'm pretty sure the add I posted is early '07 but like I said I have to hit the books. The early front fork leads me to believe that it was built sometime in '06 but that's just a thought on my part. It's interesting what parts show up on early bikes. I recall seeing a picture with a competition machine in 1910 with a chain drive! Never take anything for gospel in those early years, even if it was seen in factory literature........

[silentgreyfello]

One other thing on the twin that I just noticed... it has a toolbox below the battery box. I have seen only one original strap with a toolbox. It is the bike that came out of Rockford, IL, then to Florida, then to Iowa, where it's in Parham's museum. Interestingly, the prior owner almost sold the toolbox because he thought it had been added later. The bike has a late serial number for 1908. Makes me wonder if the twin shown is a late 1908 as well because of the toolbox and filler spout? I can't see if the fenders are rounded or humped.

[silentgreyfello]

Mike Parti was restoring one for somebody 10-12 years ago.

Not a 1907 twin. I don't know if he was involved in the 1911 twin that Bettencourt found in Iowa that he sold to Chandler. To my limited knowledge, there isn't a real pre-1909 twin in existance. Someone mentioned that somebody in Ohio? was making a replica early twin. It was posted on this website at one time. It would be cool to see the progress.

Notice on the "1907" twin that it has the gas tank with the filler in the front. I thought it was determined that this was a feature of 1908?

[c.o.]

Well that was quick! So one did survive! That's good to hear!

[Chris Haynes]

Did any of the early straptank twins survive? I seem to recall reading an article that Herb wrote awhile back that said that possibly one example is still kicking around but I'm not positive on it. I believe he also let on that someone was recreating an example of one. But I'm not sure if it ever happened or if it was based on this model that has the '06 type fork. I've got some more literature digging to do I guess!

Mike Parti was restoring one for somebody 10-12 years ago.