the first Harley's

[HarleyCreation]

I think your right Herb. There is no negative number on the front of the photo. It has to be
a number put on by the Historical Society. That was my first thought too. How do we know for sure when that photo was taken? Could it have been taken in 1905 of the first
production Harley to come out of the shed? Are we 100% positive where that photo was taken? Given the fact that the "lobby bike" never even existed would it be to far fetched to say that the "shed" might be a figment of Mr. Lacy's imagination also?

Dick

We don't know exactly for sure when the guy-kneeling photo was taken. When I first saw it, I thought it was a c1905 photo, but then I carefully studied it and compared it to other photos in the following manner:

There are several photos from 1918 that show this same segment of the shed on skids after being moved from the Davidson family backyard on 38th & Highland and up the block to the Harley factory.

These photos from 1918 show a similar setting and background as in the guy-kneeling photo, which appears to be along the railroad tracks at the Factory. We know the RR track background from any number of other photos taken in the Factory yards.

Therefore, the guy kneeling photo had to be taken AFTER part of the shed was moved from the Davidson family backyard and over to the Harley Factory. That makes it 1918 or later and another simulation of reality and NOT the real deal.

How much later it was taken, we don't know. If it had a H-D neg. number on the front, Chris could date it for us. But if it's the same bike as the later "1904" collection bike as Earl has pointed out, then it is pre-1938 by which time it was painted black. I'm leaning closer to 1918 than 1938 because isn't there ae c1938 Enthusiast cover photo showing the shed with a picket fence and Mr. Gruenwald watering flowers???

[HarleyCreation]

Another thing about that "1906" that eventually made it into the museum lineup is that it does have a later 1908 motor, with 8 studs holding the crankcases together. There is no known evidence that any true original 1906 model Harley single motorcycle ever had anything other than a six-stud motor.

The 8-stud single motor is first seen on Harley's 1907 model machines.

Exactly right and thanks for posting it. What H-D calls a "1906" that if correct for 1906 would have a 6-stud motor, instead has an 8-stud motor with a 1908 serial number.

Therefore, this supposed "1906" is another hodge-podge and anyone who bases a restoration or model year correctness on it will be wildly misled.

I'll bet that somebody like John Nowak or Wm. H. Davidson would have known when and how they acquired that bike. Too bad we didn't know enough back then to ask them.

Hey, how the heck did you get that cool "1905" club number????

[pem]

I'm thinking that's the Wis. Hist. Soc. negative number and not Harley's. The photo itself doesn't have a neg number inked on the front and must have been cropped off.

Dick, you just were there and looked at it. Am I right and there is no negative number inked in the lower corner on the FRONT of the guy kneeling photo?

I think your right Herb. There is no negative number on the front of the photo. It has to be
a number put on by the Historical Society. That was my first thought too. How do we know for sure when that photo was taken? Could it have been taken in 1905 of the first
production Harley to come out of the shed? Are we 100% positive where that photo was taken? Given the fact that the "lobby bike" never even existed would it be to far fetched to say that the "shed" might be a figment of Mr. Lacy's imagination also?

Dick

[Earl]

Also notice there is no 1906 model shown. Nor does there appear to be a 1906 model shown in the 1951 collection photo posted above. Seems that H-D added the "1906" model much later, date unknown. And what they label as a "1906" actually has a motor with a 1908 serial number!

Another thing about that "1906" that eventually made it into the museum lineup is that it does have a later 1908 motor, with 8 studs holding the crankcases together. There is no known evidence that any true original 1906 model Harley single motorcycle ever had anything other than a six-stud motor.

The 8-stud single motor is first seen on Harley's 1907 model machines.

[HarleyCreation]

I will post from the article later. About the only thing I could see in the new HD's defense is that even if they didn't produce a motorcycle in 1903, the company was started then.
Mike

That would be great!

Actually they started back in 1901, although there was no official company formed until Sept. 1907.

But you're right, the year 1903 was a very critical and important. That spring Walter came home to attend Bill D.'s wedding to Mary Bauer and stayed in town to help finish the motorized bicycle the boys had been struggling with the previous two years. Apparantly Walter did a lot of the assembly work to get it running.

Altho that under-powered motor bike was not a success, never went into production and never sold, it was a valuable learning experience. In 1903 they revamped their entire design philosophy from that first attempt. They turned away from the concept of merely motorizing a pedal bicycle and towards building a REAL motorcycle that arguably was the BEST on the market when it appeared in 1905.

Almost certainly, if they had tried to produce and sell that "1903" power bicycle they would have failed miserably in the marketplace and today would be just a long forgotten name....if that much!

So 1903 was very important. It was a critical turning point. But that is far from the story H-D is telling people today about what happened in 1903. Heck, they got the boys selling 1905 models in 1903!

A lot happened in 1903, but THAT didn't happen!

[HarleyCreation]

14799 wouldn't be an original as the numbers time frame would fall in 1938.

I'm thinking that's the Wis. Hist. Soc. negative number and not Harley's. The photo itself doesn't have a neg number inked on the front and must have been cropped off.

Dick, you just were there and looked at it. Am I right and there is no negative number inked in the lower corner on the FRONT of the guy kneeling photo?

[HarleyCreation]

thanks pete,thats the earliest picture i've seen of sno #1. they actually shipped it overseas on the eve of the war.wow.i like the caption under the photo too.interesting how they describe the bike in 1938.the bike looks almost the same as the 1963 pic.although the seat isn't ripped ,and it looks like it has tires.

I never knew they shipped that bike overseas either, but it says so in the fine print. That's pretty amazing!

[HarleyCreation]

Herb, you could not have said it any plainer in your book and articles. I know at this point it is a forgone conclusion that the lobby bike(1903) never existed. And lets not forget
our friend S. Lacy Crolius who probably did more to foul up HD's history than anybody.

I went to the Wis. State Historical Society today to see about getting some restoration work done on some of my early documents and stopped to check out their old motorcycle photos as I haven't seen them for probably 10 years. They have an original copy of the
photograph you refer to in the above quote and I looked at the back side a little closer.

On it is hand written "Harley-Davidson motorcycle was invented by the collaborated efforts of Walter Davidson, Willisam S. Harley and Arthur Davidson of Milwaukee in 1901. This is a photograph of the 1905 model." Then in larger printing is hand written "1905 Model".

Hand written-"Donor: Harley-Davidson Motor Co., Milwaukee, Wi."

Typed-"Copy negative no Whi (X3) 14799, Image ID - 2544, Classified File 507 508." The 507 is crossed out.

I didn't see a date when the photo was donated. I bet that HD wishes they had it back.
No mention of William Davidson which I find interesting and the 1901 date is also interesting. I'm assuming that the hand written words were put on the photograph by someone at HD. Unknown for sure. There are a few other photos donated by HD.

Herb, do you know the date the photo was donated to the society and why William's name isn't included?

Dick

Yes, much of the blame can be directly laid upon our buddy Lacy Crolius, or as one "historian" once called him: "Crolius Lacy."

I don't know when that photo was donated, but I'm guessing a LONG time ago. I'd also guess they left out Willam D.'s name in that blurb: ("Harley-Davidson motorcycle was invented by the collaborated efforts of Walter Davidson, William S. Harley and Arthur Davidson of Milwaukee in 1901.") because they were talking about 1901, a real early date. But then they should have left off Walter's name too. As far as we know it was Bill Harley, Arthur D., Henry Melk, and possibly an unnamed "German draughtsman" who were involved in the motorized bicycle (not motorcycle) project in 1901, and not yet William & Walter D. Altho only William Harley's name appears on the surviving ORIGINAL signed 1901 engineering drawing.

I had forgotten it said "1905" model on the back of that photo. That means, if Earl is right and that's the later "1904" black collection bike (today's SNO #1), that it has gone thru yet ANOTHER model change transformation over the years!

1905
1904
1903-1904
1903
"Serial Number One" (very first Harley ever made)

Thanks for the heads up!

[HarleyCreation]

I found this picture in the March 1951 issue of Cycle. It accompanied the obituary of Arthur Davidson.

This is the photo we were looking for. To my knowledge it's the earliest photo of the H-D collection taken as a group. It is also the first time the black "1904" badged bike appears, unless, like Earl believes, the gray bike in the guy-kneeling photo is that same machine, and he has analyzed these photos and bikes better than anyone.

Also notice there is no 1906 model shown. Nor does there appear to be a 1906 model shown in the 1951 collection photo posted above. Seems that H-D added the "1906" model much later, date unknown. And what they label as a "1906" actually has a motor with a 1908 serial number!

[Chris Haynes]

Typed-"Copy negative no Whi (X3) 14799, Image ID - 2544, Classified File 507 508." The 507 is crossed out.

14799 wouldn't be an original as the numbers time frame would fall in 1938.

[pem]

Okay.

Being the same machine makes total sense if they were looking for early jobs around 1919 and here's one shot at the factory during that same period. Chances are they didn't let that baby get away!

It also makes sense that that they dropped the gray and sang "Paint It Black" in order to better replicate a pre-1906 model. First they called it a 1904, then a 1903/04, then a 1903, and most recently "Serial Number One" (SNO #1), claiming it is the FIRST Harley ever built and that it NEVER left the Factory from Day 1; all totally without supporting evidence of any kind except for some little numeral "1"s stamped on a few parts and lots of imagination.

If this is the Lobby Bike (SNO#1), then Lonnie and Earl are right and it's the earliest known photo of it we have.

Frank Kenzler says hello to everybody and is buying everyone a round!

Herb, you could not have said it any plainer in your book and articles. I know at this point it is a forgone conclusion that the lobby bike(1903) never existed. And lets not forget
our friend S. Lacy Crolius who probably did more to foul up HD's history than anybody.

I went to the Wis. State Historical Society today to see about getting some restoration work done on some of my early documents and stopped to check out their old motorcycle photos as I haven't seen them for probably 10 years. They have an original copy of the
photograph you refer to in the above quote and I looked at the back side a little closer.

On it is hand written "Harley-Davidson motorcycle was invented by the collaborated efforts of Walter Davidson, Willisam S. Harley and Arthur Davidson of Milwaukee in 1901. This is a photograph of the 1905 model." Then in larger printing is hand written "1905 Model".

Hand written-"Donor: Harley-Davidson Motor Co., Milwaukee, Wi."

Typed-"Copy negative no Whi (X3) 14799, Image ID - 2544, Classified File 507 508." The 507 is crossed out.

I didn't see a date when the photo was donated. I bet that HD wishes they had it back.
No mention of William Davidson which I find interesting and the 1901 date is also interesting. I'm assuming that the hand written words were put on the photograph by someone at HD. Unknown for sure. There are a few other photos donated by HD.

Herb, do you know the date the photo was donated to the society and why William's name isn't included?

Dick

[portagepan]

I will post from the article later. About the only thing I could see in the new HD's defense is that even if they didn't produce a motorcycle in 1903, the company was started then.
Mike

[HarleyCreation]

This negative was entered into archives on August 14, 1953. This is the beginning of the 1954 year model production. The photo is taken in front of the Capitol Drive Plant.

Yep, H-D launched the 1954 bikes as the "50th Anniversary" models which makes PERFECT sense if their first real prototype motorcycle didn't appear until 1904, which is EXACTLY what our evidence in "At the Creation" in "The Antique Motorcycle" and elsewhere fully demonstrates and that outshines this billion dollar corporation's lame cover-ups and fairy tales.

Unknown reasons indeed!

Gotta wonder how much Harley would pay to explain away or undo the 50th Anniversary in 1954. I'm guessing lots...

[HarleyCreation]

Walt Disney had it right. Fairytales sell! Got my latest enthusiast, and they go on about the 1954 anniversary date being wrong for some unknown reason. Maybe a time warp?
Mike

Yes, we credited this mysterious time warp jokingly to Henry Melk's magical time-traveling lathe!

Could you or someone please post the new Enthusiast's exact words about the supposed WRONG 1954 anniversay date? I'd like to see how they are currently addressing this continuing in-house anniversay celebration discrepancy.

Unknown reason? Says who? We know the reason and have explained it in detail many times in magazine articles, various books, online, and have supplied lots of evidence for our findings too.

Why the denial? It makes them look like a bunch of dummies.

I'd like to see that article. My guess is that people are asking embarressing questions about the HOG Museum's claims because the word has gotten around.

It's really too bad and unfortunate because it didn't have to be this way. We presented our findings early on before anything was published, offered our full assistance with a perfectly acceptable solution to the problem that would give plenty of credit to the golden year 1903, which indeed was important, but NOT in the manner they are claiming.

Instead, people are supposed to believe in a fairy tale that is shown to be FAKE right in their own HOG Museum!

[Chris Haynes]

Walt Disney had it right. Fairytales sell! Got my latest enthusiast, and they go on about the 1954 anniversary date being wrong for some unknown reason. Maybe a time warp?
Mike

This negative was entered into archives on August 14, 1953. This is the beginning of the 1954 year model production. The photo is taken in front of the Capitol Drive Plant.