the first Harley's

[HarleyCreation]

The Florida bike is looking good. Do you know yet what the final color is going to be? Are you keeping all the details of the bike as they originally were from the previous owner?

Nice....

[jurassic]

florida bike

[c.o.]

Yup, that's the staged circa 1918-19 photo. It's an '05 or '06 model. The picture was also taken after the shed was moved.

[Chris Haynes]

I found this picture on the net. It is titled as 1905.

[HarleyCreation]

Six & Eight

When the 8-stud motor first appeared is not entirely clear because we have so few original dated photos in the late 1906 thru early 1907 models production period.

This is why Danny's claim of a "1906" model with an 8-stud motor is an important question (see "1906" thread). What does he base that year date on? Does he know/have something we don't? Or has he arrived at an incorrect conclusion about the year of the motor? Because it looks that 1906 motors were 6-stud and 1907 and 1908 models were 8-studs based on early photos and original ads.

[jurassic]

there is now a very nice may 4th 1907 magazine on ebay .it has this ad in it.i just think it is interesting.notice the bike has the attachment type sager front fork,and the gas tank has the side fill spout.it does look like an 8 stud motor though.its kinda cool as it can date some of the changes ,and that these changes were not exclusive to 8 stud or 6 stud bikes.apparently the later style sager and the later style gas tank were only used for 1908,possibly late 1907.i wonder when the first 8 bolt actually appeared.i believe this pic was in herbs book too.

[jurassic]

may 4 1907

[c.o.]

Thanks for sharing this info guys. It's good to be learning about this stuff........

[Earl]

so earl this picture shows the small bump on top of the rear motor mount casting . this bump is only found on two of the five known six bolts? does the buckboard six bolt have this bump?is the bump early or late? are there any other differences between the known six bolt motors?

The buckboard motor doesn't have the bump, because there aren't any frame mounts.

My belief is that the bump is for 1906 model motors.

There is a dimension difference that we talked about off line. The motors with the larger dimension, in my opinion, are 1906 model motors.

[jurassic]

six bolt differences

so earl this picture shows the small bump on top of the rear motor mount casting . this bump is only found on two of the five known six bolts? does the buckboard six bolt have this bump?is the bump early or late? are there any other differences between the known six bolt motors?

[jurassic]

six bolt

[c.o.]

I was going to say no, but the setting looked familiar and Milwaukee like. Kind of the same background of Walter with the winning 1908 machine.

Look on p.138 of "At the Creation" and tell me if this photo wasn't taken at the same place! Then look at p.130 and look at the middle guy (Henry Roberts) who rode with Walter D. in the 1000+5 N.Y. Endurance Run. Isn't this the same guy????

Kind of looks like you found another photo taken the same day, same place, to publicize the winning bike (if that's really it).

I think you got it figured........ I can't for the life of me figure out where I found the picture, but Henry Roberts does ring a bell and the pic on pg.138 does appear to be his likeness.

[HarleyCreation]

Front Motor Mount Position?

This Kansas bike is almost certainly a 6-stud motor.

Can't we can tell from the front motor mount position?

On 6-stud motors the front mount was at about 3 & 1/2 o'clock position relative to the crankshaft center, while on the 8-stud motor the front mount had migrated upwards to about a 2 o'clock position. If I'm not mistaken you can see the 3 & 1/2 o'clock motor mount position on this Kansas machine.

Plus, like someone already mentioned, it looks like this crankcase has the large wide Harley-Davidson name on it and not the narrower 8-stud crankcase name. Together, those things say 6-stud to me.

If I'm corrrect about the front motor mount, we won't need to count the studs, but only see the front motor mount position. If someone already mentioned this, I missed it and I'm too lazy to reread all the posts.

I believe this is a 1906 Harley with the new (for '06) gray color option with a replacement front fork (black) and maybe new wheel. All known 1907 models show 8-stud motors. If this were a 1905 model, it would be black. Plus lots more 1906 models were made than 1905's and most 1905's stayed around Milwaukee. A 1906 in Kansas way early makes sense.

But the kids still don't have shoes....

[HarleyCreation]

If it's a six stud motor I'm thinking this bike being a 1906 model. I see those black smudges and don't know what they mean (defects on the photo possibly?) It seems doubtful these down-home country guys would bother to repaint this motorcycle from black to gray. Heck, the kids don't even have shoes, but "Pathfinder Dave" gotta have a motorcycle!

This looks like a very early period photo from the day and not taken years later. Since gray bike option was first in the 1906 model year plus 6 stud motor says 1906 to me.

Of course the black fork stands out. And what is that wrapping around the rim and tire? Some kind of period flat repair? Or factory wrapping of a new part?

Did Dave break the original fork and wheel in some Kansas goat trail encounter? is that how he got the name "Pathfinder" Dave? Maybe here's the new repaired machine as he sets forth on another pathfinding adventure!

This is one of the best photos ever....

[HarleyCreation]

Has anyone posted this pic yet? The fellas name has slipped my mind, maybe you know Herb? If not I'll do some diggin'.........

I was going to say no, but the setting looked familiar and Milwaukee like. Kind of the same background of Walter with the winning 1908 machine.

Look on p.138 of "At the Creation" and tell me if this photo wasn't taken at the same place! Then look at p.130 and look at the middle guy (Henry Roberts) who rode with Walter D. in the 1000+5 N.Y. Endurance Run. Isn't this the same guy????

Kind of looks like you found another photo taken the same day, same place, to publicize the winning bike (if that's really it).