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I really appreciate that you are sharing, what you are doing with the SS. The job itself is a ton of work, but taking the time to take good pictures to share that process is very generous. Thank you.
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Eric Smith
AMCA #886 -
Thanks Eric, taking pictures for me no problem, I’ll use them for reference when putting everything back, I’m taking a lot more pictures then I’m posting believe me, my iPhone can hold hundreds!Comment
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Speaking of pictures lets see what we find
1941 sscout 69.jpg
Well with the primary open I notice somebody forgot a mounting screw (should be right behind the drive gear), no biggie.
1941 sscout 70.jpg
Seems they also forgot the cotter pins in the primary chain master link. I didn't find any pieces or little washers inside the covers, so they must have been left out completely. These are known to break. I may get a new endless chain from Greer when its going back together, just to be safe.
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I see they also did not fold the washers over on the clutch outer plate nuts. The washers are pretty chewed up, so they might have done it once, but not the last time.
This is why its good to go thru the engine, you don't know what people did back then.
To be continued....Comment
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Great work, love the history and family connection to the motorcycle.AMCA # 3233Comment
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this post boring, just pulling the clutch plates out...
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but its still progress.....
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more breakdown, got the inner primary off
1941 sscout 77.jpg
The drive gear different then Sport Scout, no sprocket for the generator chain...
1941 sscout 78.jpg
And now I see why someone used a stud and square nut on the primary
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They broke the mounting hole out on the trans case, so they stuck a stud thru the primary, bent the end so it would hit the trans and not rotate, and square nutted the outside.....genius!
I could get this welded up and repaired, but for the sake of time I think I got a spare trans case in good shape so I'll use that.
To be continued....Comment
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another unique part on the Big Base motors is the engine sprocket.
1941 sscout 80.jpg
The boss on the crankcase is much larger and there is no sprocket to drive a generator.
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For comparison shown with a stock engine sprocket.Comment
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Lets get into the timing side...
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Looks like Bonneville cams, I kinda expected that.Comment
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Taking a look in the timing case I can see the Big Base motors are beefed up and needed additional machining for clearance
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Its beefed up by the pinion gear, so much so my pinion puller wouldn't fit, had to do a little filing (very little) in the case and a lot of grinding on the puller to get it behind the gear.
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Finally got it. Below is a comparison of the stock Sport Scout timing side and the Big Base
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Ready to split the cases and see what they did with the scrapper.......
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OK, I gotta split the cases cause I'm curious about the modification they did to fit Chief flywheels into the Big Base case.
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Looks like they ground the scraper back (they'd have to for the bigger diameter Chief flywheels), they also ground down the outer face of the flywheels.
IMG_9559.jpg They did a real nice job, there is only about .010" clearance.
Surprised they didn't do the ball bearing conversion on the drive side.....oh well. I'll clean the cases and the rust off the flywheels and button her back up.
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Joe, not up on my Indian factory episodes, so when you say "they" are you referring to factory modifications, or were the big base Scouts all done independently, by various builders?Originally posted by FLFD7 View Post
Pisten Bully is Harry Roberts in Vermont.Comment
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Harry,
When I say they I mean whoever worked on this motor, but I don’t believe it was done at the factory. Like I said in my introduction I was told by my good friend Jules that this bike was built by Mel Rhoads who was an ex racer who opened an Indian shop in Paterson NJ from 1946 till 1951. Jules used to race back then and owned a couple of Big Base Scouts in the early 50’s. Here he is on one of his racers:
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Jules was not a fan of strokers, they were not legal in Class C racing. He told me you could always tell a stroker cause they would shoot out to the front at the start but by the second lap they would fall behind. Jules was an amateur, but he raced at Williams Grove and Langhorne and most of the tracks in the northeast.
I think the factory developed the Big Base cases to allow better scavenging of the oil with a bigger sump area then the standard Scout engine and a built in scraper. The bigger boss on the drive side not just for strength but to also allow room to machine that side to allow ball bearings instead of rollers. The timing side was beefed up because they used high lift cams and double valve springs to prevent valve float, and these heavier springs must have put too much load on the lifters and lifter shafts so they made the case thicker in these higher stressed areas.
I am not sure, I’m no expert believe me, but I think the factory racers got the ball bearing conversion, and I think they used 841 flywheels cause they were a little thinner and lighter so the bikes could rev quicker. Just the opposite of a stroker. But since the stroker would not be allowed for racing, I think Mel Rhoads built this engine for a street bike with some racing components. Well, Mel or a mechanic friend, cause whoever modified the cases knew what they were doing.
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Turned my attention to the transmission. The boss for the rear bottom mounting screw was broken off, I thought the simplest course of action would be to just use another case, but then it struck me that this was a 41 Sport Scout, Indian made the boss on the sprocket side of the bike longer (and used a longer trans main shaft) to bring the sprocket out further because they added the shocks to the rear frame. I had a couple of Scout trans cases, but all pre 41, they didn't have the longer boss (forgot to take a comparison picture). So I had no choice, had to get the existing case repaired. My friend Pete had the same damage to a case he was using and had a guy who would weld up the case. So time to clean and empty the trans case.
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Once I get the welded up case back I'll drill and tap it, should be good as new.
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I really appreciate what you are sharing with us, Joe. This kind of information, and pictures are gold for people who love old bikes. I've been interested in your posts on the SS because I have a friend that has one (not big base), and he's never going to do anything with it, and I could probably work a deal. I have my misgivings about it because this one has some big frame problems, and would be an "all-in" commitment for my time which is still owed to other bikes I have. Anyways, I'm a big fan of your posts, and thank you so much for taking the time, and effort to get into the devilish details.Eric Smith
AMCA #886Comment
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Just to add on to my previous post about the Sport Scout transmission case, as you can see in this picture the difference between the rigid frame and the sprung frame bikes.
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On the left is the later style 1941-1942 case, on the right is the earlier models. The boss on the sprocket side of the motor is about 1/4” longer to move the sprocket out further cause the rear shocks made the frame wider. Of course the later cases are harder to find cause less of those bikes were made.
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