Heliman's never; Excellent Alternative Provided

[Chris Haynes]

Looks white to me.

Cotten,
Ya better get yer glasses fixed. ;-)

[Chris Haynes]

Here is a factory photo of a 1939.

[Chris Haynes]

[QUOTE=Mark Arnould;I just can't believe I was wrong so many times.[/QUOTE]

You had better believe it. :)

[Mark Arnould]

White Thread

As I said. A black and white picture you can not tell from. example. What color is the paint? Are the spokes plated or painted? What color is the tail light lense in your 40 picture? Gray? We can not tell the thread color in the picture no more than we can say the tail ligth is red in the picture. Is the seat black or tan. Why does the seat pan (shell) have no holes in it? everyone knows they did in 40. Whats up with that? I'm not trying to down grade you or make you look bad. Nor am I trying to get in a pissing match with you. I didn't have time to get pictures of some seats today with white thread. But I'll have someone post them tomorrow on a new thread. This is n't right to keep this going on a Thread with a negative heading against Heilman. You don't have pictures of every bike seat ever made out there to say they never made one with white thread. Lets say some production drawings do exist. Who's to say they were always followed. That certain years they didn't make changes and not revise wording on ther plans. I've seen this case many times. Besides, I've made quote that black may have been posible in the thirties.
These threads aren't designed to be used like there starting to be used for. We shouldn't bicker back and fourth like childern. When I first posted, it was to find out information. not insult anyone or cause hard feelings. I just wanted statements to be backed up. because, I'm getting alot of questions from clients concerning statements you and Parqutte have made. Which I've heard was a really nice guy. This has been getting totally out of hand. So, I tried to call him several times today and my call was never answered.
Not to fight with him or belittle him but to meet him and just to chat. I think its important for the competition to know each other and get along. Theres no reason for us not to get along as every one in this business used to do. After all, we're all striving for the same thing. To make the business better. I hope to meet you as well one day. And hopefully we're just be able to laugh all this off.
Sincerely
Mark Arnould

[T. Cotten]

Attached are four more seats that shouldn't exist, according to one or the other of the two conflicting viewpoints offered.

The top left is a pre-war seat with no ventilating holes in the "pan". The binding has disintegrated as so many do, to reveal black thread.

Top right is a WLA seat with "white" thread. (I prefer to call it "natural".)

On the bottom are two '60s seats with 'white' thread, bright enough to have been bleached before waxing.

The fossil record says the experts have a lot more research to do!
It would be very tragic if pieces of history are destroyed and 'restored' based entirely upon revised hearsay, out-of-context documents, or subjective opinions of color in black and white photos. (People have a habit of seeing what they want to see.)

Those who created our history were not as obsessed with perfect conformity as we would make them out to be.

....Cotten

[LarryHeil]

Hard evidence!

Thank you Cotten,
That is my viewpoint too. Physical evidence (yours is great) is the best.
My father and I have seen hundreds of seats over the last 30 years and have a very good iimpression of what was correct and not. We have also done a lot of reasearch in libraries and through old magazines, parts books, and factory brochoures.
We can tell people what we have learned but unfortunately there is little we can show other restorers. Sould have taken more photos over the last years, but photos can be doctored or just not clear about the issue.
Saddles by Heilman strives to be correct as we know but if our customer wants it done differently we will accomodate him. (you want black thread on a seat that we know to have had white thread, that is fine)
Now due to popular demand, Saddles by Heilman is not putting our small logo on the bottom of seats that we restore.

[Chris Haynes]

I am not bickering with anyone. I am simply giving the information available to me from factory documentation and photos. If someone else thinks that a 70-80 old part that has been in the sun and the weather all it life is as it left the factory I have no control over that.

[Paps]

You are looking at an NOS WLA seat. Last pic is before it was removed from the packaging. I borrowed the shots from one of our renowned vendors. Paps