Heliman's never; Excellent Alternative Provided

[Ohio-Rider]

Well put Mike.

[silentgreyfello]

Not sure why anyone would send a saddle to someone without making a call to see if they could make it before sending them the seat!!! Then jpbingham has the gall to get upset about it? Look in the mirror, dude!

Heilman's has done nice work for me in the past, but they put they stamp their name on the bottom of the seat, so I started using the Saddleshop and Worshiem. Have been extremely pleased with both.

[schmittm]

Pride in workmanship

I'll have to admit that I had really mixed emotions about finding Heilman's name tooled on the underside of one the seats I received from him. And then I thought about it and tried to rationalize why they chose to do that, after all it certainly was not stamped on the original seat.

My take on it is simply that, if you do something right, and you are proud of what you have done, why not let everyone know that you are the one that did it. Good or bad, you are taking credit for the finished product. If its junk, the whole world will know who produced it and nobody will ever send you money to do similar work for them. If it is a work of art, and everyone that sees it thinks it meets the standard, you'll get a pat on the back and ensure that you will get repeat, and new, business.

Personally I have much greater respect for somebody that is not ashamed to sign his work. I don't consider it as commercial or as advertising, I view it as somebody that has taken pride in what he has done and he is not afraid to let anybody else know who did it.

Are we going to have any points deducted at an AMCA meet because that stamp appears on the underside of the seat? If Kevin Valentine reads this I hope he will give us an answer.

mike

[silentgreyfello]

Would it be appropriate for my pinstriper to put his initials on the bike in a discreet spot? How about the guy that rebuilds my motor... can he attach a plaque or stamp his name in the crankcase? My painter does fine work... perhaps signing their name to the bottom of the gas tank would look good? My nickel plating could have some etching in it that says "Bob's Plating".

Maybe I am getting carried away here, but if I am paying for a service, why should I have to advertise for free for the guy that I purchased the service from? I think it is important to warn prospective customers that they may get more than they hoped for.

Here is the bottom side of the seat. Again, no problem with the quality of Heilman's work, just don't like the NASCAR look on my bikes. I since have taken a razorblade and cut their pride pad off, but the epoxy glue still remains. I am going to have this bike judged next year, so I will soon find out if I get docked points for the glue.

[Paps]

Last points say it all IMO. I agree. If I were judging. I would dock anything not representative of the original. A different name plate, stamping, or tag, not as original, is just that. Not original. Replication is to be like original. Nothing more. Nothing less. Paps

[schmittm]

First, I want to make it clear that I am NOT a living testamonial to Heilman's Saddles, I merely happen to be one of their customers and i was satisfied with the product I received. I have also purchased from Worsham and Heather's Leathers and I am just as satisfied with what I got for my money from them.

I too was tempted to try to remove the Heilman logo from my seat but, as I mentioned in my last post, I decided to leave it for the reasons I stated.

My rationalization is that it is no different than other "brands" displayed on our bikes. When the Motor Company purchased parts from outside sources many of them came with plainly visible marking that identified who made it. Some examples are the MotoLamp lights and lenses, Guide lamps and lenses, Delco Remy relays, regulators and generators, and millions of pieces of hardware that are clearly stamped with the Chandler Products trademark. Every time you look at your speedometer you know it was made by Stewart Warner or Corbin, and Mesinger was proud enough of that patented #3 cushion Saddle that they tooled the information right in the top of the seat where you stick your butt.

Until I lose points because of it I'm not going to let it bother me.

jmho

mike

[silentgreyfello]

Mike, Your point is well taken. However, the examples you brought up were OEM parts that were on the bike as it left the factory. None left the factory with a "Heilman Saddles" patch.

[kval]

Are we going to have any points deducted at an AMCA meet because that stamp appears on the underside of the seat? If Kevin Valentine reads this I hope he will give us an answer.
mike

Mike
just saw your question. the answer is NO, as long as it is on the underside where it is not really visible. remember that good reproduction is allowed

[exeric]

I agree that it is not appropriate to sign reproduction work. There are exceptions, such as reproduction that could be misrepresented as genuine but even then, high quality reproduction is usually as expensive as genuine and just as good. If a craftsman feels compelled to sign their work it should only be with the permission of the buyer. I like Howard's seats but I too was ticked off when I saw his hallmarkamp glued to my very expensive Henderson seat.

[Paquette]

I have to agree with Paps on this one. A reproduction seat should have no modern maker's mark, only stamps that would have been original to the factory seat. There are more important issues to look for as far as reproduction quality. Is the thread color correct, neither H-D nor Mesinger used white thread, black seats used black thread, tan and brown seats had brown thread. Are the rivets that hold the leather binding correct? H-D used three different rivet finishes from 1933--today. Is the binding dyed the correct color? Is the edge finish correct for the year of the seat? Is the finish of the leather correct ( here I am thinking of the Rhino grain). Is the padding the correct thickness and material? Is the skirt or apron( if appropriate) the correct material ( leather or pantaline plastic) for the model year? Are the rosettes the correct color and attached with the correct washer and rivets? I have been doing research on this subject for over 7 years and have factory documentation to back my claims.These issues, I believe, are the attention to detail that most often fall by the wayside when bikes are being judged. --Michael Paquette--AMCA-- 6671

[kval]

I have to agree, if I spent all that money I would not want anything that did not belong there. we are all learning about what is correct for the seats and need all the help we can get. if you do not want to judge the whole bike, at least step up and offer to help us with the seats, so we can learn from you.

[Paquette]

Kevin--I am not sure if your reply is directed at me but I would be most happy to " step up" as you say and give a mini-seminar to judges at any meet to discuss the issues with seats, saddlebags ( I know they are considered accessories) windshield bags, etc. My goal is not only to make correct products but to educate enthusiasts as to what is or is not correct. I will be at Jefferson and maybe you, me and " No Show Dan" can have a conversation!!! ( Maybe you remember that conversation from Oley)--Michael Paquette--6671

[kval]

Mike
when we talk about seats, who else would I talk to. maybe we could get you to do a seminar at Rhinebeck next year.
and that is "Disapperin Dan"

[Paquette]

Kevin--I would be happy to share what I know about seats. I do, however, have a ways to go to be able to judge a bike. I'll see you and "Disapperin" at Jefferson---

[LarryHeil]

Thread Color (1920 HD)

I have an original excellent condition 1920 HD seat. (Mesinger Cushion Suspension No.1) This came from the HD collection. (my father did about 25 seats for the HD museum many years ago and they gave him this seat)
The still original thread is WHITE. Where it is exposed is has gotten a little dirty and gray, but when a piece of thread is taken out of the leather (where is has been protected) is is white for sure.
Please tell me what can be more accurate than this?