!914 Twin HD Cannon ball request

[steve hartley]

Thanks for the ride, Joe. I'm diggin' it!
Not to distract you from task but having seen your pan at Wauseon last year and the talents displayed here, I'm envious to start with but also curious as to previous projects along the custom and period modified lines.
Fantastic craftmanship.

[Slojo]

Lonnie
Great photo of the 1914 do you have any more? If so please post them for my reference.
Steve
Thanks for your appreciation some people just don’t get it pertaining to the dual carb. 1948 pan
I have one truly custom bike build under my belt from many years ago. It started from someone else’s 1948 pan chopper that he never finished. I changed a few things and built an ok hot rod 48, pictures may be difficult to find. Also a 1970 XLCH Sportster was my first bike. Today I still have it and it would be considered a period modified, mostly stock though. The Sportster has been beached for too many years now, motor out parts off, it really needs some attention. Typically restoration style builds are my forte.
The1948 dual carb. pan started out as a typical restoration, apparently it was not meant to be. That is a story in itself. I would like to correct the myth that the1948 dual carb is a period modified, it is not. It has been my contention all along that it is a Modified ……. Period. That in itself can be taken several ways so please fit it to your liking after all it is a bike first and a classification last.
This 1914 build may take on some interesting engineering and styling traits let me first get past the basics prior to any final decisions are made. I am itching at perhaps some unique if not “off traditional” ? styling to exercise my imagination again.
Enjoy the Ride
Joe

[HarleyCreation]

Herb
The final gear ratio will depend on the final motor design and tire selection which is still undetermined. Motor operating RPM and torque curve play a vital role here. The final gear ratio will be a difficult challenge with the varying road conditions including mountain climbing where a motor can lose as much as half of its power in high altitude conditions. Then of course we will have the long duration runs on the flat lands including the occasional speed challenges. Motorcyclists are of the competitive type, can’t get it wrong. Besides I do have some tricks up my sleeve, stay tuned for the final results.
Joe

That gearing problem sounds real interesting. It's beyond me how a single geared motorcycle was even possible, altho they lived with them for years and years. Maybe you can to carry an extra sprocket in your pocket and change gearing along the way for the moutains vs. flatlands, etc. No joke.

In the old literature I don't see the question of gearing (for single speeds) being discussed very much. But apparently it was a challenge. It had to be. Gotta dig more.

Last evening looking at 1915 literature I see that they really raved over the 3-speed gearbox. Dealers were fainting in disbelief how wonderful it was. Of course they were hyping it up, but how much after living with single-geared machines for so long?

Another thing I saw: By 1915 there was a HUGE glut of used motorcycles on the market. So many that many dealers wouldn't take trade ins. You can bet that early models (pre-1910 or so) were purposely junked in the thousands and thousands. Probably countless thousands of perfectly sound machines gone without a second thought because nobody wanted that "old junk."

PS: Lonny's '14 sidecar photo above looks to be a 2-speed. I think those people on the bridge are Oscar Becker and his future wife. That's another Factory photo.

[HarleyCreation]

Joe,

How about styling the front fender like the rare 1916 "Roadster" model?

1916 Roadster quote: "The Fast Stock Mount for the Highway" (But when they said "stock" there they didn't really mean stock at all!)

[HarleyCreation]

Gear Ratios

Found gearing listed in the 1916 H-D catalog:

60.34 ci Twin motor
11 hp guaranteed

Single-geared Twin Model
4.07 to 1

Three-speed Twin Model
3.84 to 1 (High)
5.76 to 1 (Middle)
8.64 to 1 (Low)

That rather answers me basic question.

Gearing on the single-speed twin was between middle and high gear when compared to the 3-speed model (if everything else is equal). Will have to dig more and find what the final gearing for the 1914 model twin was and whether it differed or not.

Never thought much about gearing in this in-between period before but it's interesting. Esp. when you consider what it was like living with a single geared machine under different road, weather, and barometrical conditions, like Joe said.

Good stuff!

[Slojo]

Herb
You are jumping ahead of me that’s a good thing, anticipating what I am already thinking of. The gearing chart is good info thanks for the research.
“How about styling the front fender like the rare 1916 "Roadster" model.”
Herb do you have access to this fender photo? I am contemplateing certain modifications that may be a good start.

Joe

[jurassic]

1914 was the first year for this part,and in 1915 they changed it.it was used in several forms for decades.

[Slojo]

Lonnie
I will take two please they are small. Is it available?
Joe

[jurassic]

hey joe, no one is making this one year only primer cup,but it seems that most the 14's you see are missing them. if someone wanted to make them i would probably take half a dozen .

[Slojo]

Help Wanted Full Time Welder (I wish)

Another day spent on the road. Upon my return Ike and Eric were on the roof of the log addition installing tongue and groove maple ceiling boards on the log rafters.
In the barn it was back to work on the 14. First on the agenda was to machine the top rear motor mount that was welded Monday night (the weld should be dry by now).
A quick inspection of the mill vise to be sure it is still square to the machine table. It had moved .002" from last check so a minor alignment was completed. Next was to center the spindle to the vise while the frame rail is locked into the vise and then center the front motor mount to the same centerline. Now that the set up is complete a ball nose end mill is installed and a cut made only to find that the weld build up on the motor mount surface was insufficient. Perhaps it is time to update my TIG machine and improve my welding skills.
With the clock running out for the evening something must be accomplished tonight. A simple bracket for the oil tank tool box needed to be fabricated. In stock was just the right material for the job so off to the mill to trim it down to size. Lonnie at Competition makes a nice set of these brackets and I did purchase a set for this project. The problem is all frames and toll boxes are not created equal and the lower bracket was a bit on the short side.
After trimming the bracket stock to proper width and cutting it to length bends had to be made. No matter how many tools you have you will never have enough. I used the mill vise to make the bends on the bracket. It worked well although the first bracket was calculated just a bit too short and the outcome was essentially the same size as the sample. The second time around produced a good part. Photos to follow
Joe 12-16-2009

[Slojo]

Primer Cup

hey joe, no one is making this one year only primer cup,but it seems that most the 14's you see are missing them. if someone wanted to make them i would probably take half a dozen .

Lonnie I would like to take a shot at it.
Joe

[c.o.]

Sorry for the delay...... photobucket wasn't cooperating......

[Slojo]

Frames and Mathematics

We left off yesterday making oil-tank/tool-box mounting straps. Today an oil-tank/ tool-box to frame spacer was made and installed with the new strap. Next was to layout and drill the bolt hole from the rear fender into the tool box section allowing the two items to be secured together. Location is important if you drill to high you may hit black gold, Texas Tea. Don’t forget to center the component prior to drilling.
Since parts have been a little on the slow side coming in the decision was to get back to the final frame repairs. Disassembly of the chassis and over to the frame table once again. The top motor mount was repaired this morning and ready for installation, it slides right in without any difficulties. Setting the frame on four 2-4-6 blocks using the 6 inch face allows for clearance of the rear frame stays to the table top. All four blocks contact the frame simultaneously a good thing because this demonstrates a frame with all the 1.25 inch main frame tubes on the same plane.
Accurate inspection on the frame table demonstrated what I had already figured out. The lower motor mounts were installed improperly from the factory. The front mount was rotated out of position to the tune of .060 “ (1/16th “) the rear mount was a little less. The best way to fix this condition as I see it is to build up the surface by welding the motor mounting tab and fixture it in machining center as previously discussed. Flexing these motor mount tabs will not fix their condition.
Finally the frame will need new sections of the lower rear rails made from the pedal hanger to a point beyond the two frame bends. Judging by what was found inside the 7/8” frame rails Harley knew they had a week point here and made several failed attempts to resolve this problem.
The week point is found next to the first strongest local section of the frame. The exhaust hanger is welded between the two 7/8’ frame rails. At this point a structure is made prohibiting much flex from this point forward. The frame rails were made of .075” wall thickness tubing that will flex from the axel stays forward to this bracket where the cracks are normally found in these early frames.
I decided to build a press die for bending new frame rails to replace the cracked sections. This will be done in the machining center. To write a program tool path for the machining center some math first must be done to find all the program points where parallel lines, angles and arcs become tangent to each other. One of the photos illustrates the paperwork behind this process. What would simplify this process is a Master-cam type of system for this work. Following will be some photos of what has just been discussed. Are you still riding along? I hope I haven’t lost anyone in the corners,A bad habit I acquired while riding Ducatis.
Joe 12-17-2009

[Carl Olsen]

Joe,
Just got home from a trip to Mpls to get some work from some vendors and chase down some parts for the Sears project. I found an original 14 Harley twin with a 2 speed rear hub that had a factory repaint like the sport twins of 19 or 20. I am not sure if you know about this one or not, but it is a perfect reference piece for yours. Give me a call and we can talk.
Carl

[c.o.]

Joe....... by the looks of it there are quite a few people following this thread with nearly 8000 views!











Holy mackerel! Check out the math!!