Class for Period Bobbers/Modifieds

[61 panman]

Mike ,
Great post I agree with your thoughts. Your screen name is close Have you thought of changing it to Mcgiver .
Speaking of junk piles when I was a kid I would always bug my mom to take me to the dump to hunt parts for my go-cart. That place was a gold mine.
The thing about collecting bikes is there is only so much time to ride them. With gasoline turning to varnish, batteries going dead, tires rotting, rust, and oil turning to acid in the crankcase, multiple bikes become a headache when seldom riddden. The funny thing is that it seems to be a common problem that too many of us have too many bikes and we still want more. I know I do.
Sometimes I fashon myself to be able to live like Malcom Forbes and have all my buddies come over and lend them all bikes and we venture on some amazing journey. I delve into this fantasy when I find myself desiring yet another motorcycle. Of course once I get a new (old) bike I come back to reality and my train of thought becomes "I ain't going to let any of you heavy handed clods grind the cogs on my transmission... get yer own bike".
Oh yeah we are talking about judging. We have to remember that not everyone graduates with honors. How about if we have a Senior First , Second, Third , or Fourth award. I for one would not mind attaching a senior fourth badge to my bike, those little metal badges are cool!
Doug

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Keep Those Ideas Coming.....

Mike, great post. I agree on many things you say. I'm not sure though if I agree with the same terminology. I think that most old 'Bobbers' have changed many times over the years since they were first stripped and modified from their Original Stock configuration. Many would later become 'Mild to Wild' styled Sixties and Seventies choppers. If you go onto some of the German/European motorcycle sites you would be very impressed when you see their everyday bikes! These guys were buying up the old Bobbed/Chopper bikes and parts in the early eighties and bringing them over there to resurface as some of the best 'Bobbers' you'll find anywhere in the world! When you go to a motorcycle meet over there, the EVO bikes are the exception, over here, the old Pans, Knuckles and Flatheads are the exception. Pity that. As for a 'Replicated' Bike, I think that would only apply to someone using a newly manufactured 'V-Twin' frame and say a S&S Motor with a bunch of New Aftermarket parts. And that's OK if that's the way someone decides to go it. On the other hand most of the Original motored Harleys, Indians and British 'Bobbers' and 'Modified' bikes have been in a continueous state of change from the very first time they were stripped, chopped and modified. They remain 'Original' unto themselves. Theres no need to 'Replicate' anything. In my view, assembling a 'Bobber' or 'Modified' from Original Harley parts and 'Period' aftermarket High Performance parts puts them on the same level as a 'Restored Original'. This can be a great 'Class' for our members to participate in. Better then Original/Restored Factory Class in many ways, because we're not worried about scratching them, getting them dented and dirty. These bikes are the best because we use them and rebuild them and use them up again! Most importantly the cost to build these bikes will be significantly lower! There is no doubt in my mind that these are Historically significant motorcycles. Many of us like yourself will go for the 'Period' type 'Bobbers'/'Modifieds' because we want to include upgraded and improved parts of later year bikes and modifications. Either because we like the looks of them or want the benefits of their higher performance aspects. That's great! But then some of us may want to bring the Bike back to a 'Historically' correct 'Year of Manufacture' 'Bobber'. Personally, I would like to see a 'National' Class so that we can bring our bikes to all the meets and not be limited to participation in just one or two across the country. As for the 'Judging', it's not that I particular care to have any of my bikes put under scrutiny, but I feel that these Historically significant type motorcycles are quite capable of doing so! Whether a 'Judging' part of the 'Class' could happen I don't know. But give it a fair shake and dissect the possibilities to see if it can't be done. Maybe create a 'Special' Class award so as not to take away from The Original/Restored Class? Perhaps 'Judge' it similiar to the 'Competition Class'?? Perhaps a 'Chapter' recognition Award? Maybe it'll get more Members involved in the 'Judging' aspects of the Club. And so forth. Let's keep an open mind and see what can be accomplished. There is no doubt I could take say, a 1955 Panhead and with a little effort bring it back to its 'Bobbed'/'Modified' lifetime stage. Just give me one of those 'Restored' Factory bikes and I'll prove it! Ha!! And I'll bet we could 'Judge' it no problem too! Its more then likely you'll find a bike in an 'Un-Stock' condition, so at one time in its long life it had to have been 'Bobbed', 'Modified' or Stripped for parts otherwise it would still be that sought after 'Original' Bike in the first place! We're just going to bring em' back to that Stage of their 'Motorcycling' life that's a step or two short of their 'Original' Factory condition. And best of all if we scratch them it'll just add to the 'Patina'! Call them 'Unfinished Restorations', but it's certainly not a 'Replica'. These bikes are the Real Deal! Come on now, let's be realistic. We pretty much know thru experience/photos/historical documents/brochures/ magazines and any number of periodicals what that 1955 Panhead 'Bobber' would look like and be comprised of in the year of its manufacture! I would just like to see the 'Bobber' and 'Modifieds' builders and owners have the same benefits as their more 'Costly' 'Restored' bretherin. Think about it. Picture a Row of our fellow Members 'Bobber's and 'Modified's sitting next to those 'Restored' motorcycles. Now some of these bike are going to be as 'Historically' correct a 'Bobber' to its year of manufacture as your going to get. Some of them will be 'Period' Correct. I don't know, maybe its just me but I think that's as interesting to see as the Same year 'Restored' bikes over in the next row! And won't that make for lots of comparisons and conversation! I'm playing at Devil's Advocate with this topic and others because I think if we're going to get this 'Bobber'/Modified' Class up and running, we ought to go 'Full Bore' and get as much out of it as we can! After all if it's worth it to us to make the effort to build these bikes then we should go for full participation of the 'Class' in the AMCA. That's my opinion. So with a Vote coming up on this Subject as well as the 25 year Rule I feel we should keep weighing in with our ideas right up to the Final vote is cast!. So what's your views and what would you like to see happen....SPEAK UP PRIVATE.....I.. CAN'T... HEAR... YOU!!... .Semper Fi ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[mcarver]

Doug, thanks for the Mcgiver reference.... I was raised on a farm and can tell you that baling wire and duct tape are the two universal materials from which just about anything can be repaired or fabricated. I've gotten a lot of ribbing about my "farmer welds" and "temporary" repairs! I'd probably do ok on "Worst case scenario", it might not be pretty but it might get you home!

Thanks Hrdly-Dangrs, I appreciate your feedback. Your point on the replica bikes is a good one. I suppose it could be said that a good motorcycle is any one that can be ridden and enjoyed, regardless of whether it is factory stock or wildly modified. We all know that everyone's tastes are different and that "variety is the spice of life" and so on. I am beginning to think that if you have a motorcycle that you own, ride and work on you qualify for any event I'd care to participate in. Ok everybody, if it runs, ride it on over for barbeque salmon and homebrew at my place!
-Mike

[Markz]

I'm posting a link to a bike builder that I really like. Click on the pictures button on the left hand menu.

http://www.zerochop.com/pictureview1.html

I have been getting more and more into bobbers and these examples are very inspirational to me.

Markz

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Markz, I'm familiar with that site. Those guys are building some great bikes! To me the Japanese guys are building what I call 'Cafe-Bobbers'. They look like a cross between the British 'Cafe' Racers of the Sixties and American styled 'Bobbers'. Definitely different! If you want to check out another great site for all kinds of 'Bobbers' and Modifieds' go to www.chopperdaves.com You'll see lots of great bikes! Also be sure to check out some of his 'Links' sites and especially check out Morten Friis' Hoodlum Harleys. You'll see lots more 'Bobbers' and Modifieds! My own bike used to be on the Greasy Culture site, but he just erased his prevoius two years worth of photos and is starting over, so shoot him an e'mail photo of your bike and he'll put it up on his site. So will the other sites. Great stuff! You'll get lots of ideas from these sites!... ...Greasy Hrdly-Dangrs

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Oh by the way, if anybody would like to see a truely unigue 'Bobber' check out the cover of or better yet, pick-up this months issue of The Horse Magazine and check out a true Craftsmen's creation! I'm talking about 'The Flying Pan' AN ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL MACHINE!! (and I don't throw that term around often!!)... Old School Rules!!... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[Markz]

Hrdly,
All those sites are great. I have wasted(not really) many hours of company time tooling around looking at bikes that get ridden hard. I love the low and mean bike that is raked with a 5x16 in front. As soon as the replica knuckle gets finished I will start on one of my own. Next one will have a flathead for sure. The flying pan is down right beautiful. The copper tank is pretty cool. It may have been done before, I don't know, but very unique. There is a lot of scary talent out there and would like to see more of those getting press. Another favorite builder that I keep an eye on is Chica. The Von Dutch bike he did was pretty damn nice. That has to be one of my favorites along side the Brass knuckle.

Markz

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

One of the common 'Period' pieces on a lot of the early 'Bobbers' as well as the Early Racers were those great 'over-sized' pillion pads. You know the ones, they were attached by fours bolts thru a flat piece of leather. I've seen new renditions of these but they're all smaller and thinner. Anyone know of any manufacturers producing the older, wider leather/vinyl pads??..... ....Hrdly-Dangrs

[k.perry]

"Bates" ( Chopper wedge 41/4" w X 8.5" long) Vinyl,smooth (VT) 47-0126 or leather 47-8657. Looks like four (brass) hollow eyelets (one on each corner). So, at least there's still a "Bates" and they're making them.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

K.Perry, dug out an old V-twin catalog and went to the seat section. Found the one you mention, but that's not it. Too thin, will give my fat ass a wedgie! Going to use it on my Sporty Drag bike. Instead I will go with the 47-0098 K-Replica, leather 7-1/2 W x 9 L . with the six eyelet holes. This is the size I'm looking for. This should keep my ass from falling off when I come off the Line full throttle. Maybe I can set it up so I can 'quick-detach' and switch it over to do double duty on my 'Bobber' for when I have to take Mrs Dangrs for a ride. I think the larger sized pillions were originally adapted from the British bikes. I see this size in a lot of the early Racing motorcycles. Old WR and KR racers. I think the thinner wedge styles may have been created later during the late fifties/early sixties as a 'Custom' pillion? Anyone know the history of these little essential 'Bobber' P-Pads?? Is your V-Twin book a newer addition? Does it show this larger leather pad still available?.... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[k.perry]

Yep. Wire http://www.zoomcyclellc.com and get a (price we can all live with) free copy. They'll send you a 2003 and a Vintage catalog if requested.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Just bringing this thread up to the top to keep it going! Like to see some more Members interested in these machines weigh in on what they'd like the 'Bobber' class to become and see done with it. Any thoughts?.... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[k.perry]

I ran up a couple of "kites" to IronWorks about "Chica's Ride" and pinned the new "Period Modified Class" on Hrdly-Dngrs's doing. So keep at the establishment Hrdly. I think now is the time to drop the other boot and request that the rules makers include the aftermarket frames as legit "Period Modified." We're all going to be building these machines up as kits from OE and AM new parts. There aren't many enthusiast that will ferret out OE frames to snip-up, although it's seems the VL is a natural bobber frame. The club should represent the home builder creating an antique replica as cheap as he can, and you can draw the line at drum brakes and any OE or AM part that's not period correct from some earlier period. You can't really tell an AM Glide aluminum front brake cover from an OE anyway can you?

[Dale V]

Modified

Hello All,
Well here is my two cents, any bike that is other than factory stock condition should be deemed modified, this is not a all inclusive category. The Bobbers are a unique class all to them selves and should remain separate because of the particular style that makes them Bobbers. I would not put a limit on parts that are not say with in X-amount of years be it + or - around that year of that particular bike, as long as it stays in line with current AMCA year restraints. As I understand the cut off year is 1968, and for period modified bikes I feel that 1968 would be rather generous. Maybe a 15 year above and below the date of the bike will give a wider range of bikes folks have now or plan on building. But you cant take a 1968 and have 1983 parts, that would not stay within current cut off year, so a 1953 would be able to compete with a 15 year worse case date. I do like the idea that ridden bike, with dirt and grease and oil is ok,if you don't ride them where is the fun? It is a hoot when you pull up to you neighborhood store and folks want to know what the heck kind of bike is that.Thats as good as going to any bike show anywhere, so lets get all those rolling chasses out of the garage. stick in a Flathead in that VL frame, put that servi-car front fender, and a Goulding sidecar fender for the rear, with a 45 three speed with reverse transmission yahoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

k.Perry. I think dropping the other boot as you say could be achieved by the participation of as many Members as possible. Members who are interested in these types of motorcycles and want to have more of a particiption of them in the AMCA other then just bringing them to a show, now is the time for you to weigh in on the subject. If you've been following these Threads for Period Modifieds and Bobbers then by all means speak up and be counted! Let's face it, the old addage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" is as true here in the AMCA as anywhere. It's always hard to convince others that do not hold the same enthusiasm in a particular type or class vehicle that there is a need for them. Some of us are purists. For whatever reasons we feel that the Club doctrine as it stands now should be kept that way. Perhaps we feel that these changes would threaten the original intent of the AMCA, (the bringing back of a motorcycle to its original state of condition from the Factory.) Everyone including myself understands the amount of time and work that goes into doing just such a restoration. The end results are nothing less then amazing! BUT...There are many others who for them the AMCA is more then just this one goal. It is for these members that we as a Club should provide the conditions to allow these types motorcyles to participate fully. I like the idea of a 'Judgeable Class' but just a 'National' participation class would be a great start. (You can read back thru the previous Threads to see where I stand.) We are into the 'Classic' and 'Chopper' years already and the 'Modern' motorcycles are just a couple years away! So, how will we fit these type motorcycles into the AMCA? If your interest lies here, better start speaking up now if you want to get the attention of the guys with the grease guns! What would 'YOU' like to see take place in the AMCA in regards to the 'Bobbers and Modifieds'??.... ....Hrdly-Dangrs