Class for Period Bobbers/Modifieds

[rousseau]

pictures

I finally figured out (with the help of a 12 year old neighbor) how to post pictures.
I would first like to apologize to Mr. Cotton who scolded me for declaring myself as the "winner". I guess I should have said that I received the first place award.
I first learned of this bike a little over two years ago when, after riding my harley to work one day, the president of the company saw me and told me of an old Knucklehead chopper he had some 35 years ago. He added that he had taken it apart and believed that most of it was still in his fathers barn. I was finally able to convince him that I knew how to work on bikes an he agreed to let me drag it out of the "barn" which was actually a lean-to shed with a dirt floor. "Taken apart" meant that it was completley dissasembled. Engine ,trans,frame,wheels every thing. The causal observer would not realize there was a motorcycle anywhere around. After getting this "pile of rust" home and taking a quick inventory I saw that it truley was a chopper. The frame had been raked and was all molded with bondo. there was a 6ft sissybar.a king queen seat .about a 20 over twisted girder front end ,a spool front wheel,a pair of rectangle headlights. (Captain America would have been proud). Needless to say ,the only thing I used was the engine and trans .
The #s side case and rocker boxes are 1938el. The cam side cases are 47 as are the cyl and heads and all the rest of the engine. I believe the trans to be 1945. The frame I used is a panhead swingarm with a (period) weld-on hardtail. The tank is a harley 125-165 (Hummer). The rear fender is from a early Triumph bonniville. It has a jockey shift and suicide clutch.
I have also used some modern parts . Disc brakes,late model springer,dunlop tires. which I'm sure will fuel the debate. But I did not build this bike to be a "show pony". I am going to destroy it mile by mile as suggested. The next time you see this bike the paint will be chipped, the pipes will be blue,they will be rust spots from battery acid,all the polished aluminium will be dull,it will be covered with burnt motor oil and all the rubber will be worn out (especially the kicker pedal).
As I had it on display at Davenport, I stood around and evesdroped on comments. They covered the entire spectrum from "What the h--- is that thing doing here" to "I wonder if it's for sale"? So give me your best shot. Just remember, no matter what, I'm not giving back my trophy
Dennis #11302

[rousseau]

another pic

Heres the other side

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

And The Most Period Correct is.......????

Enjoyed seeing both T.Cotten and Rousseaus' 'Period Modified' motorcycles. The fact that both are 'Knuckleheads' lends them to perfect comparisons in the new 'Period Modified Class'. While Rousseau's 'Knuckle' is a Beauty and well deserving of a trophy in of itself, It's too bad that T. Cotten could not get his bike Judged that day, as I believe (from what I can tell from the small B/W photo of his bike) that T. Cottens' 'Knuck' is more Period 'Correct' to its year (10 year Rule withstanding) then Rousseau, and would, if I were to have Judged, taken the 'First Place Award' at Davenport' (Other entrys not withstanding). And here is where this Class is interesting to me. The Closer to 'Period Correct' the better! Yes, I know that T. Cotton 'Knuckle' has BMX Bicycle front fork pegs for passenger pegs, and the handgrips are later vintage, and the plastic grips on the levers are later and the kicker pedal looks like something off an exercise bike, but part for part it appears that Rousseaus' 'Knuckle' has many more later (with quite a few after the 10 year rule) parts. Great bikes both!!...Great comparisons...and more importantly...Great Fun picking over their 'Rides' for correct 'Period' details!!....Hey Rousseau, better get some riding time in on that 'New' old bike, cause it ain't got that 'Authentic' grease/dirt 'Patina' yet!! Can we deduct points for No dirt?? Well we should!!...After all...this ain't the Fancy, Smancy Shiney 'Restored Class'!!...Ha!.. Hrdly-Dangrs

[Perry Ruiter]

That's no period modified (as I was lead to understand it's meaning). That's a chopper! The numbered case is 1938 so that's the period we're attempting to reflect (within 5 or 10 years). That's not a bike a rider in the early '40s would have ridden. The brake pedal looks to be off a 1980 FXWG for pete's sake.
I have to agree with Cotten, this category is not judgeable. With restored bikes we have the standard of factory correct. With this there is no standard to hold the bikes to so it just becomes a beauty contest decided on the judges' whims ... Perry

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Wake Up, The World Of Motorcycles Doesn't Just Revolve Around You....

When are you guys who like your antique motorcycles 'STOCK', going to realize that the world of Antique motorcycles doesn't revolve around you only!? Please climb down from YOUR HIGH PRICED HORSES!! The 'Period Modified Class' has been created to recognize an 'HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT TYPE of motorcycle. This Class is not about your choice of motorcycle 'Style'. You already have your catagories to participate in. It is about those of us who understand the place in which these motorcycles and their builders have 'EARNED' their due in 'OUR' Club! If you don't care to participate, then go about your Original, Stock restorations in peace. But please stop telling those of us who are DUES PAYING MEMBERS ALSO, what 'YOU' think 'WE' can't do! WE understand Period Modified. We understand that this Class of Judging is a special interest catagory...We know we're not getting any 100 point Award....WE'RE OK with that. If T. Cottens 'Knuckle' would have been judged along side Rousseaus bike, there's no doubt who's Knuckle would be most 'Period' correct. And yes, T' Cottens bike would lose points because of some of the parts he has chosen to use. As it is, it looks like Rousseaus bike walked away with the Award by lack of participation or Judges lack of interest. Yes, Rousseaus 'Knuckle' belongs in a later 'Period' to be Correct in its make-up. Actually, not Judgeable at this time due to the use of modern components. That's the 'Judges' call. But I'm not upset about it, cause I can see the bigger picture in regards to having this 'Period Modified Class' work out. When all the Rules for this Class are laid out and all the Chapter Judges understand what their looking for, then the Class will work. That's my opinion.... ..Hrdly-Dangrs......

[Perry Ruiter]

I'm not trying to tell you what you can or can not do. You're free to do whatever you want. I am, however, free to express an opinion on how the club that I, too, am a dues paying member of should run. I was trying to keep an open mind to this whole period modified class but seeing this bike win and your brow beating attitude have closed my mind to it ... Perry

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Perry, I'm not brow beating anyone. If you read my Post you would see that I 'Agree' that Rousseaus 'Knuckle' is not 'Period Correct'. I feel too that it has too many modern parts for the year of the motor..(.if that's the way the 'Period Modified' class has been set-up. I understand that it is, but I've seen no 'Official' statement or Rules for the class yet.) On the other hand, T. Cottens 'Knuckle' (from what I can make out of the small picture he posted) Is a more 'ACCURATE' Period Correct bike but for a couple of questionable parts on it that may not be with-in the 10 year period rule. Now if there had been a few more motorcycles at Davenport for judging in this class, I would move on to the next one to see how 'Period correct' it is...right on down the line. The same way a Restored or original bike is Judged. If no bike merits the award at that show, then better luck next show. And also please remember, this class is in its infancy, it needs to crawl a little before it can walk...Do you really think I'm brow beating??...As a former Marine Sargeant, I 'NEVER' brow beat any Private...I only tended to get my point across ...'FIRMLY'...Ha! Ha!.. Semper Fi...Hrdly-Dangrs

[val]

class for period bobbers/modified

Hrdly dangrs
I see that you completly understand EXACTLY what I am trying to do with this class, show the history of motorcycling in America.
I have to agree with you that Cotton's bike is more period correct and had the deputy judge(who did not want to do this) had come and asked my advise the outcome might have been different. both bike are nice examples of modified bikes in America, and both deserve to be seen by our members. hopefully this class will grow and become more popular across the country, and we can see bikes from the 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's that have been modified and/or accessoried by their owner to show their personal taste in what a motorcycle should look like.
Val

[T. Cotten]

What's personal taste got to do with it?

Val!
What's personal taste got to do with it?
I thought the mission of the AMCA was to preserve history. Not to re-write it.

The authentic "period modified" machines that I have pulled out of barns were painted with a brush. They made a statement about the owner's handiness, not his billfold or a mail-order catalog.

Even a rule about a spread of years is ludicrous, as most bikes chopped in the 70's were made in the 50's, or earlier. Un-judgeable! This can only lead to rancor and a b*tch-fest. It is not in the best interest of the AMCA.
There are plenty of biker lifestyle magazines to promote modern customs, but only the AMCA has the foundation to elevate our standards of research, originality, and documentation.

Toss that all into the barroom john. It became a "competition", unlike any other AMCA class.

I brought my Fossil (tongue-in-cheek anacronisms and all) to D-port so that I could make just such a statement. How ironic in light of my rejection, that the "winner' illustrates so much better how preposterous the whole notion has become!

I was going to interview my dear friend, the deputy Judge,.. but I know now that he should be spared the grief; The prime promoter within the Chapter dumped it on him. Apparently it no longer served his personal agenda.

Forgive me for repeating myself, but the format for "National Recognition Awards" is already in place, as Chapters often dedicate "Longest Ridden" and "Most Unique" (etc.) awards. These do not compromise the prestige of serious Class Judging. "Period Modified" can fit into this without grief, and serve our egos just as well.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

T. Cotten.....'Restoration' of any motorcycle back to it's original condition, changes that motorcycle from its original condition. It will never be that 'Original' motorcycle again. It is itself affected by the owners/restorers 'personal taste'. From the accepted Powder Coating....Stainless Steel Spokes and choice of original Paint colors and Period Accessories. You cannot get away from that no matter which way you choose to present your motorcycle. Yes, mechanically you can keep it to 'originally' manufactured replacement spares or original parts from another motorcycle of the same make/model, but it will still be a 'restored' motorcycle. A representation of its former self. How is that any different from a 'Period Modified' motorcycle?? One exception of 'Period Modified' is NOT having to spend gobs of money to capture that look and still achieve a true 'original' period 'as used' motorcycle that is in everyway as Historically' correct as the Factory Stocker. I have to dissagree to your statement that it will lead to a *****fest. The bikes are being 'Judged' against themselves (as to 'Period' correctness) same as the Restored/Original Class. I have to say that so far as I can see, only those who are adamently opposed to the 'Period Modified' are '*****in' about it. 'Period Modified' enthusiats are looking forward to making this 'Class' viable in the AMCA. After all, we're not creating a new type of motorcycle, just a means of 'inclusion' of these already well documented, real world, historically significant machines into a Judging Class. Real world motorcycles have included mostly modified motorcycles from the very beginning of the sport. The Period Modified Class is similiar to our 'Competition Class'. Would you argue that these 'modified' race bikes have no place in motorcycling history or the AMCA?? I hope not. Either the 'Period Modified' motorcycles being Judged live up to their known Period Mods or they don't. They'll get the Award because they are true to their 'Period'. No one here has said any negative comments toward your friend. Nor are we going to. The only comments to be made are that Rousseaus motorcycle, while a great looking bike, did not fit into the 'Period' that it was placed for 'Judging'. It should have been eliminated from Judging due to its numerous Late model components. It is a candidate for one of the other Awards you mentioned. The fact that Rousseaus won the Award doesn't upset me. It just tells me that we have some work to do if we want the Class to succeed. It's meant to be 'FUN'! The Award is just a part of the fun. It recognizes the builder as much as the bike itself. Again, anybody can participate in the Period Modified Class or not. Just don't take it so seriously that you take the 'Fun' out of it! Later... Hrdly-Dangrs

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Rousseaus, I hope you don't think that I'm knocking your ride. You've put together one clean 'scoot'. And it definitley deserves awards for your craftmanship. I'm 'Old School' style myself and I have seen a lot of bikes built by so-called professional bike builders that look like some kind of abortion rolling on two wheels. Even with all their money thrown at their project bike, they come up short. They would do well to take an example from your work on what an 'Old School' scoot should look like. That said, I would, if I'd been a Judge at Davenport, have to pass over your ride because of the late model H-D parts that you chose to go with simply because of the 10 year rule of the thumb for the new Period Modified Class. I like your answer to the unasked question of giving back the trophy.....Ha! Ha!.....Now go out there a thrash that bike.....the next time you rebuild and change it, you can add the correct parts to go with the trophy!......Ha!... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Why Not Just Restore??

I had somebody ask me why I don't just 'Restore' a bike to be eligable to have it 'Judged' in the normal AMCA catagory instead of pressing for a separate 'Catagory' like 'Period Modified'?? Well, its not that I haven't ever 'Restored' a motorcyle to 'Stock'. It's just that I can't seem to keep it that way once I finished it! Not to mention the pangs of irritation that goes with the dirt, nicks, chips of riding it! For me 'Modified' means BUILDING IT, RIDING IT, AND USING IT UP the way the motorcycle was meant to be used and damned the shiney stuff! A hard thing to do when you drop a ****load of harder to come by greenbacks into it! So for me, there is only one way of building a motorcycle. I take a pic of it just before I start to ride it 'cause I know it'll never be that clean/shiney ever again. At least not until I 'Change' it or Rebuild it again! A hard thing to do with a 'Restored' Stocker. So then, here I sit with my 'Modified' motorcycles, a Member of a Club that emphasis 'Restoring' bikes back to their Original 'Stock' condition. Yet I know that my 'Modified' bike as true to the old bikes of the past as any 'Restored' Stocker! So then my choice is to either not ever participate in a 'Judging' catagory and relagate my ride to just sit in my Vendor spot, or help create a viable legitimate venue for 'Judging'. I choose the later. These real world, hard riding motorcycle deserve the recognition of their undisputed place in motorcycling History. And I don't mind stumbling, changing, and adjusting this new 'Class' of Judging to obtain the final results. Recognition of 'Period Modified' and the myrid of 'Styles' like 'Bobber', 'Chopper', Cafe Racer, and yes even 'Customs' that surely will have to fit into this new 'Period Modified' Judging Class is my goal. Even when other Members like to term this legitimate 'Period Modified' Class and its Awards as "just another Custom Bike Show". "Period Modified' will work if we do so with a 'POSITIVE ATTITUDE' and a view to legitimate Judging of the Class. As a former Marine Sargeant, that's the only way I know!...DAMMIT, SOMEBODY RAISE THE AMERICAN FLAG...I FEEL LIKE SALUTING!!...HA!!...Semper Fi...Later.....Hrdly-Dangrs

[Kojack]

Bobbers and cafe racers are my favorites but it seems to me that this class will be a nightmare to judge seriously. Who's to say what a period modification really is? It could be very difficult to verifiy that something was actually done during a certain era. Maybe this class would best be a participant judged type thing. It would reduce it to sort of a "beauty contest" but it would give the owners something to shoot for and a chance to formally display their rides.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Kojack, I think the first thing we have to do is realize is that the 'Period Modified' class is now Officially recognized by the AMCA. Let's stop saying it can't work and let's see how best to make it work! With that in mind, as I understand it, the 'Period Modified' does not have the tiered system of Awards (Junior 2nd, Junior 1st and Senior and Winners Circle) that our fellow Members in the 'Restored Class' must achieve. There are only two National Recognition Awards a (First Place and Second Place) which are voted on by the hosting Chapter. I believe most Members entering their bikes in the 'Period Modified' recognize that its a different ballgame. The 'Period Modified' class is about recognition of our 'Style' of motorcycles and their builder's more then anything else. It affords A Member having only one old Motorcycle (that just happens to be his everyday ride) an opportunity to participate in all the aspects of Judging on a less costly basis. No points off because something that he chromed or painted a different color was not the way it came from the Factory...No points off because he used a different gas tank or decal...chopped the front fender or has no front fender....Road dirt, oil spatters, nicks in the paint job are ok. Hell, most none 'Period' parts will stick out like a sore thumb! No pissing and moaning in this Class. We're all going to learn a lot about Period Modified motorcycles from each others bikes and collective knowledge. We're going to get some great 'Bobbers' and 'Modifieds' lining up along side each other. So Senior Awards be damned.....Let's talk 'Period Modified'... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[val]

class for periodbobbers/modifieds

hardly dangrs
I think I will just sit back and let you explain this whole class to everybody, you seem to have my thoughts in your head(dangerous thing). by the time I get to read this thread you already have the answer.
Kevin