Class for Period Bobbers/Modifieds

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

I was reading thru some of the earlier posts and noted Kevin Valentine's comments on 'Period Bobber's and Modifieds' (see 'Judging, cannon, Aug 7, 2001), and am wondering if any changes or conditions have been made to allow these type bikes in Local/National Judging? It's of special interest to me as I'm working on bringing one of my projects (a 74 Sportster XLCH)(Future Antique) set-up to '1974' Period drag bike "specs" (Check out my ad under 'Wanted' section of this forum if interested)( Appreciate any info you could supply me.) Anyway, there were questions/statements posed as to how these types of bikes might be judged for authentic 'Period Mods' and parts. So I 'd like to pose some comments/ideas on how this could be done.......First, I'd like to start out by saying that this may actually be a lot easier then one might think. These type bikes are well documented already thru tons of pictures and articles featuring the current "trend' of their day. Easily recognizable, 'Bobbed' style bikes themselves are basically any bike whose Fenders were modified by shortening or as in complete removal such as the front. Removal of unneeded items that would in effect 'mimmick' (Did I just badmouth the Irish)..current Racing motorcycles of their 'era'. Pretty much 'lightening them up and 'modifying' the engines for more performance......2. Painting 'Styles' for these early bikes tended to be the 'Scallop' type designs.....Flames designs coming into their own with the Sixties style 'Choppers'.....3. High performance parts of the era are also well documented....In fact many of these parts were available thru the bikes Manufacturers themselves...again well documented thru factory brochures and parts books!...Modified Linkerts carbs, wheel sizes.... tires....engine mods...the list goes on.....4. A 'Judging Standard' could be set-up based on 'Period Correct' and not a 'Exact Standard' basis..For instance...We know that an S&S carb would be incorrect for an early 40's 'Bobber' ...A 'Joe Hunt' Mag wasn't available till the fifties (I'll have to go to the 'Hunt' web sight to verify that)..nor Goodyear 'double white wall' tires. In fact I think that if we got started now, there's enough of the older guys still around...(Hell we lived thru those times), to come up with a pretty damn good set of 'Period' correct guidlines. We wouldn't have to be as ridged in our judging because the points would be on 'Period' correct and not the 'Individual/Manufacturer Stock Correct" that affects Senior Award bikes. Probably bring out a lot of bikes and their parts lanquishing in the garages that just don't have a prayer at making a Junior Award, never mind a Senior. These type bikes were usually ridden hard and wouldn't be worth their salt if they didn't have some oil and rust on them...and you know you wouldn't want any other way!..... What DO YOU think?!..... Hrdly-Dangrs

[B. Rodencal]

Where have you been? I started on mine last winter. I should be ready by next spring. FatDog

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Cabin Fever

You are witnessing 'Cabin Fever' at its worst...the seamingly nonsensical ramblings of an 'old man'. Oft times stating the obvious and generally being a 'pain in the ass'. To make matters worst he has a new computer....and a 'Forum' to post his seemingly 'New Ideas'....put this guy in a small, dimly lit room surrounded by images and trinkets of the one thing that really matters to him..(No not his wife!) and you've got a 'Twilight Zone' episode in the making.....listen to him...saying over and over ...."MOTORCYCLES...MOTORCYCLES...MOTORCYCLES .... while staring into that brightly lit screen.. .with all the little yellow heads with funny faces...Ha,Ha, Ha...look... a board with buttons and little symbols.. ...its a magic board you know!!.. ...You know they say "crazy people don't know their really crazy"....Yes... you'll learn to love those odd posting by Hrdly-Dangrs.....your compelled to look.....you must look.....Yeah, I'll show them...they can't see me ...but I can hear them.......I won't move....not even to catch that fly.....Wait..Listen...That sound...Da.Da..Da.Da.......now... where did I put my 3-D glasses....Mustt..clicck...butttonnn.....Beam me up Scotty!!.... ....Hrdly-Dangrs

[61 panman]

Hardly,
I am following you around today. I think the problem here is the crappy weather as of late, and even if you did venture out to brave the elements there is a thick coating of rocksalt everywhere just waiting to start corroding our old machines. That really drives us cranky old guys crazy.
I can only back my bikes up to the garage door and start them up. Then I can go back to the computer to write about it.
Doug

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

There's so much salt on the ground this year that it looks like snow! I live on a rather busy two lane road up here in North Jersey and the Township is spreading salt like it was free. Got to wonder about those guys riding those new 2000+ Evo's around. Do you think they have any idea as to the damage they're causing to all that aluminum and shiney parts? Maybe they have access to heated garages and unfrozen hoses......California Dreaming Hrdly-Dangrs

[Pete Gagan]

Ahhh. It looks like we have a good potential judge for the "period modified" class. Give Kevin a call.
Pete Gagan, the Prez.

[inrustwetrust]

I think a class for bobbers is a great idea. There is one issue that concerns me. One of the judging guidelines discussed was keeping all the parts on these Frankenbikes we are building to within a ten year span. I would think that a more representative rule would be no more than six or seven years after the year built (what it has been registered to be) and no limit to parts from earlier years. What bobbers means to me is the opportunity to create a machine the way I like it and work within what would be available during the period at which people were building the machines. We should make the judging so that it will add to the fun of building them. With many bikes, this is becoming one of the only ways to get one up and going.

[61 panman]

Donuts

Are you guys talking about these bobbers being built with new parts just to look old. Or building a bike now and letting it age for the 35 years untill it can be judged. Or basing it on an old frame or engine and cobbling up the rest of the bike around some original part.
I am reminded of the days before I even heard of the AMCA when I put whatever the hell I wanted to put on my bike as long as I thought it looked cool or kept the old scooter running.
I used to buy parts from the legendary Joe Barber (may he rest in peace) and he kept telling me I should join the club or something about the club this or the club that. I did not have a clue as to what he was talking about, correctness and such. I thought it was all kind of silly, and it probably is. But he was right and I do love being a member of this club.
Should anyone care to keep on reading, my feelings about the whole judging thing is. Judged bikes come in three catagories.
1) The Enthuiast who takes an old hunk of junk or a box of parts and resurrects a beautiful machine. This person really deserves an award.
2) The Rider who acquires an old machine thru purchase or inheritance and keeps this old treasure running and on the road. This person receives their reward everytime they ride their bike and sucessfully make it home under their own power.
3) The Lugger who buys an already mint older bike and trailers it out for judging and the honor of lugging home a trophy.
It is all different and all somebodies idea of fun. I for one love to come to the meets and see all kinds of machinery there out in some field being driven around. As these bikes should all be ridden.
Bobbers look best when somebody is doing donughts on them so if you guys show up with your bobbers I think you should skip the field judging and all slog it out in the dirt spinning around kicking a ton of dust in the air untill only one person is left standing. That would be the best bobber class!
I throw down my glove,
Doug

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Yes.....Hrdly-Dangrs

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Original is as Original Does.

I don't think anyone is necassarily looking to have these types of motorcycles receive awards as much as to get them out there and lined up to see who's doing what and how to their rides. Kinda give those 'Beaters' their due. We, at least (I), do not wish to take anything from those guys that put in the time and money to bring back an old bike to it's original condition. I admire the workmanship that goes into such projects and I can understand how after spending so much money and time how important a Senior Award can be to the overall value of the motorcycle when it comes time for resale, trade or whatever. However, there are a lot of guys out there that could care less about bringing it back to its 'Factory Original' condition! For them a 'Bobbed' or 'Modified' old bike 'IS ORIGINAL AS IT WAS USED! I've been going to the AMCA show for some 15 years now and it has always bothered me to see those great 'Bobbers' and 'Modifieds' sitting outside the 'Judges Arena'. Kinda like the 'Poor Kid' in his dirty T-shirt looking over the fence at all the 'Rich Kids' playing baseball In their Fancy New uniforms....If only he could get to play he'd show them what he was made of!! For me 'Bobbers', 'Modifieds' are all 'WINNERS OF THEIR OWN MAKING'. These were the bikes that set Speed Records, set the 'Trends' of their day from 'Paint Schemes' to 'Performance Modifications' and changed the very look of the 'New Models' of motorcycles coming out of the 'Factorys' the very next year!!. Let's create a venue for them to flex their 'Original' stuff as they were used....grease, cut-down fenders and hand painted 'Scallop' paint jobs. In many ways they are just as 'Valueable' and 'Admired' as any Shiney 100 point bike will ever be.... ...Greasy..Grimey...Happy....Hrdly-Dangrs

[inrustwetrust]

Well if bobbers were to be put into a class, wouldn't you think it would be good to subdivide the class to fit the notions that the builders had in mind? There could be the serious, "restored" pieces, the original (not recently molested) types, the let's have fun types, or whatever. The notion of a bobber has many different meanings to different people (total glitz to "feelin" comfortable). It would be nice to include the whole bunch.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

A Year of Manufacture Rule?

Perhaps the 'Bobbers' and 'Modifieds' could just be 'Representative' of its 'Period'. To start breaking them down to individual 'types' may be too complicated. A good 'Representation' type class that would be 'All Years Inclusive' would probably work just fine. I think the 'Competition Class' that we now have in the AMCA is all years inclusive also. We would mainly be looking for 'Period Correct' more then anything else. Like no S&S carbs on pre-60's? bikes, no open belt drives on pre 70's??, correct tires tread/styles for any given years of availability and so on. We could set paint finishes and tank styles, like when the 'Sportster' tanks was available to use, decals/tank badges etc. to those years of a machines manufacture and when certain types of mods/parts became available. Of course 'NO' points off for dirt, grease, dents and scratches! The primary objective is the more period correct to its year of manufacture, the higher the score. (Thats if the Club were to set such a score rated criteria)....WHAT SAY YOU??.....Hrdly-Dangrs

[T. Cotten]

The AMCA has a legacy to preserve.
This is to insure adamant adherence to authenticity. It would be a great downfall to water this down with vague catagories of un-judgeable machines.

On the other hand, each and every Chapter is at it's own free will to offer prizes for "Most Unique", or "Farthest Ridden" or whatever. The Chapters should be encouraged to broaden interests with specialty awards by all means!,
... but the critical judging of concours should remain austere and uncompromised.

It is already threatened by judging officials with their own agendas, sometimes attempting to bypass due process by asserting their personal political pull among members.

It would be a lot of fun for Chapters to offer competition for period customs, and 'preservationist' as well, but it should not become another avenue for commercial restorers to assert themselves with inferior machines.

T. Cotten
Liberty Motorcycle Specialties, Inc.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

One Man's Concours is Another Man's Bobber

No one is going to confuse a RESTORED ORIGINAL CONCOURS FACTORY motorcycle with that of a 'Bobbed' or 'Modified' one. There is nothing 'Magical' in judging these type motorcycles as they comprise the very same parts or better the 'lack of parts' as their 'Factory Correct' bretherin! We already have the 'Competition Class' that allows the judging of 'Period' correct machines. All we (those of us who recognize the importance of the 'Bobbers' and 'Modifieds') are intersted in is creating a 'Historically' correct venue to bring out the machines that till this day reflect the very design of motorcycles coming out of the 'Factory'. We are in effect denying these important motorcycles and there builders their due. There are umpteenth numbers of 'Modern' renditions of 'Bobbers' and 'Modifieds' that use so much modern or post period parts that they would not qualify for this catagory itself. No one judging a 'Period' Bobber or 'Modified' can confuse an S&S 'E' carb (for example) with that of a modified Linkert, a set of Dunlop modern tread tires with that of an early Firestone or Goodyear tread tire and so on! The historical information on these bikes are well documented, easily identifiable thru photos, literature and catalogs of their time and can be applied to a 'Judging' criteria if in fact the 'Club' membership should choose to hold them to such. We're not talking about some phantom futurisitic style motorcycles here, these are the actual day to day real world motorcycles that you would more likely see being ridden then a totally original untouched motorcycle of their day. For many of our members the piecing together of a 'Period Correct' Bobber or Modified motorcycle is financially dueable and more importantly USEABLE. The cost to bring an old bike back to its pristine original Factory condition is for a lot of our members beyond their reach. The Cost of plating, original sheetmetal and gauges alone can be staggering. These costs alone will keep many of our members from ever participating in the 'Judging' aspect of our Club. The idea that this type or 'Class' of motorcycle will affect the 'Standards' of the club with regard to 'Factory' Concours correct restorations is in my opinon unwarrented. If anything it will likely increase the possibility of these running 'Beaters' or 'Everyday Rides' being purchased by other more financially affluent members with the means to bring them back to their Factory original condition should they choose to. Clearly there is an interest in this catagory by our members and it should be made available to them. It poses no threat to the overall goal of the AMCA club. Judging a correctly restored original motorcycle and awarding it a 100 point/Senior Award, though a mainstay of the Club, is still only one aspect of the many variables that comprise the Clubs makeup. After all this is a club of different people with common and different opinions as to what the club should be about. As T.Cotten has expressed, if there is indeed political schenanegins going on in the Club, the more important it is that ALL DUES PAYING MEMBERS have a say and an outlet for their own expression with regards to motorcycles....instead of 'Can't' be done or 'Won't' work.......Let's try my old Marine Corp Adage'......."CAN-DO!"..........Semper Fi... ...Hrdly-Dangrs

[61 panman]

Check out this months issue of Cycle World. Great old Bobber story. It details the old TT races in the US started by Motorcycle hall of famer Reggie Pink. Reggies family still runs the local HD Fleecership in White Plains NY.
Anyway the story features a hybrid Knucklehead, dirtbike that would interest all here. Some cool details are a side mounted Sportster oil tank, and what appears to be a large sprocket welded over the drum mounted sprocket along with a lot of other shadetree stuff.
I believe all posts here are expressing much wisdom and look foward to the day when time will allow me to build my own definition of a custom.
If you get the magazine check out Pete Egans article as a bonus. This is not a magazine I would normally subscribe to but they offered it to me for 10 bucks a year and I have found it to be well worth the price.
Doug