Our Club's Direction

[Pete Gagan]

Reading this continual saga convinces me that further clarification is needed.
Why do we now have two Corporations? The IRS made the suggestion.
Why did we split the treasury between the two? The IRS made the suggestion. This based upon the fact that some of these funds were accumulated by the not exactly legal former charitable corporation. That’s been passed to the new charitable foundation.
Why did we use the same officers initially in the foundation? It was the simplest and least complicated thing to do.
Why are we aiming towards a separate board entirely? The IRS made the suggestion.
Is the IRS happy with this new arrangement? Yes.
Does either corporation have to pay taxes? No.
Are our Chapters protected by our insurance and able to share the same tax advantages now that we have brought them legally under our umbrella? Yes.
Are all our logos and copyrights now protected? Yes.
Do we have litigation? Not really, but we have been threatened recently due to slanderous statements put on the website by a member hiding behind a pseudonym. Rocky has a point regarding the site.
Do we need a part time lawyer on call? Can you imagine a bunch of motorcycle guys trying to do the above on their own? Yes.
Is the AACA arrangement a done deal? No. As I said before, there is an 18 month trial period, during which we (the club) can decide whether we like it. I believe we will.
It is not just a museum, (which the IRS love, by the way) but a permanent address, which we’ve never had, a corporate headquarters, a place to keep and organize our archives, run the on line library and merchandise sales, and an excellent venue for events. Hershey is not in everyone’s back yard, certainly not mine at 3000 miles, but is smack in the middle of our largest concentration of membership, so it can’t be much better.
Believe me, this was a hell of a lot of work. It is legally two corporations, but still fundamentally one club. That is the key!
Your comments are being followed. Due to remarks made on here by Barry Brown and others, our very well known new foundation board member has decided to opt out, because he simply does not need the aggravation in his already very busy life. That is very unfortunate, as his involvement would have done us proud. I certainly don’t blame him, and am sorely tempted to follow his lead and bail out also.
I realize we don’t have open elections, which is not ideal, although the system has worked well for 54 years. Don’t forget, any of you are eligible for these glamorous jobs. All that’s required apart from the ability to actually do it, is a desire to spend a bunch of your own money, and work your behind off for free. Yes we do get some limited expense money, including the odd airplane ticket, but “limited” is a key word here. In my own case, my un-recovered expenses to attend AMCA related affairs have averaged between 8 and 10 thousand per year for the last six years. I don’t regret a nickel, as I’ve enjoyed almost every minute.
This is my last political statement. I am more than happy to discuss motorcycles any time, which is the original purpose of this site. If you wish to discuss politics, talk to our new president, or a board member directly.
Sincerely,
Pete Gagan, former club president, and friend of the AMCA

[jww]

Thank You Mr. Gagan. Gentleman, if that explaination doesn't resolve our current questions, now is the time to pursue a position on the board. I'm most certain a line will be forming at Rocky's front door in short order.

[Mark Woodstock]

Pete,

Thank you for coming on and addressing some of the issues. Regarding contacting the President or Board Member if we still have questions in a one-on-one discussion, I don't believe that is what the majority of members want. I believe open discussion is what most members want here. As far as becomming a Board Member, the rules as I understand them is that you put your name forward, and then are voted on the Board. I know of several people that have had their name on this list for many, many years, and have been looked over time and time again. So I don't know how feasible it is to simply put your name forward and become elected to the Board if you want to enact some change and make a difference in our club.

We still go back to the fact that there are specific questions that have been asked by members, and so far not answered by the Board. Maybe if you could sit back and look at this from the side of the average member's point of view, who sees that huge money has changed hands, purchases made, retainage of an attorney made, etc., but no information provided from the Board about these matters, or an opportunity to voice an opinion about these decisions.

I'm sure I may get some flack from some of my fellow members about this, but I feel passionate enough about this club to voice my opinion when I felt it was going in the wrong direction, and not to do so under a pseudonym.

The bottom line is if the Board would have explained to the members what was going on at the time these decisions were being made, which could have been done as simply as posting on this website and the magazine, the questions and rumors wouldn't have flown around as they have been for months and we wouldn't have gotten to the point that we're at here. I hope to think that Mr. Leno backed out because he read the postings here and saw that the members have some valid concerns here.

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

Wake up AMCA Board to the 21st century and try using the National website and Forum site to communicate with the paying membership. Many Fortune 500 Corporations hold international meetings on it and they seem to be doing alright. Most of us can read and write and can comprehend U.S. Corporate Rules, IRS Tax Laws and a mariad of other business matters and the language they use. If we're not sure of a word or its meaning we can just open the dictionary window on our c-o-m-p-u-t-e-r. We'll get the jist of it.

When we ask questions concerning our club and its funds, do us all a favor and just answer the question. Its not that hard. Don't get insulted if we don't think of you quite like we do our mothers. Trust is a relative thing....and you know how some relatives are.

If you ask us for suggestions and then we suggest something, try to not dismiss it as a "waste of money" just because its not exactly what you like or a Torque-Four motorcycle.



Just so you know....

Hrdly or Hrdly-Dangrs = George Moesch, #3232 and I live in Sparta, NJ

[Tom Lovejoy]

I say support the board and be grateful for their services, they are not perfect by any means. But I know several of them and all I have known are first rate dedicated folks. Their efforts for the club take far more effort than most could imagine. Just being an officer in a local chapther can be a lot of work and frustration. Remember its volunter, give them much grief and they will indeed bail. The system might not be the best, but our club is one of the best and they are running it. Could you do better? I doubt it.
As a past officer in the so cal chapther I can tell you having people calling all the time with issues gets old real quick and if your not getting paid for your efforts. The post gets old right away, I know I no longer want it. Just my 2 cents, by the way I was surprised - even in our chapther with folks with computers, almost none even check out the club site or forums. To Pete thanks very much for all you've done!!

[D.Mac]

The Forum

I hope Rocky will re-think his opinion of the value of this forum, whether he chooses to be active on it or not. According to the stats at the bottom of the main forum page there are 4255 members of this forum, I'd call that a significant number. It's interesting, as Tom pointed out, that many members don't ever look at the forum. As for myself, I belonged to the Club for several years before I ever got on the forum, I just assumed it was "chat" and I didn't want to waste my time. After I really looked at it, and saw the pool of knowlege here, I've followed it closely. I also think a lot of forum members are like me, and do more listening than talking(posting). I did notice a lot of new names showing up during the last couple weeks. Regarding Pete's comment about a poster hiding behind a psuedonym, I don't know the specifics there, but it seems to me when I signed-up, that I was asked to provide a "screen name". I guess I could have used my full name, but I shortened it because I'm a lazy (two fingered) typist. Regardless of our positions on various issues, lets try to keep the discussion civil.
Doug McLaughlin, #6607

[portagepan]

Say it ain't so Joe. As just a newer member without much longtime knowledge of the club, I have just a few thoughts, and no complaints. In the other organizations I have belonged to, I have seen two things which cause major problems. #1 is lack of communication. #2 is trying to do too much! Let's keep it simple here, and enjoy ourselves. I personally have concerns about the club having a Museum. There are already a heck of a lot of MC museums out there. Most of them I regret I will probably never see. If we do start a museum, how big will it get? What kind of bikes? How many employees? Will it be all members bikes rotated? Purchased? Rented? I personally feel that all money should stay with the club, to promote what it does best. Hell, let's enjoy it. Have more runs, maybe restoration forums, or even restoration team to help other members. The world doesn't need another overblown "charity" organization. Let's get those bikes on the road, compile the history of the great sport, and have fun! I used to have a nickname, but it is too embarasing. Well, it's time to get out to the garage, and taker a look at that seat I need recovered.
Mike Schmitz

[KNUCK]

In the end we all want is what is best for the club.

Sometimes lack of communication can cause problems where there may not be anything other than a busy schedule or, not understanding what it's like being on the outside looking in.

As a forum member since June of 2001 things have really improved here. Some people are just old school and it is a hard transition to paper less communication. Being on the wrong side of 50 I find if you don't keep up you will fall behind.

This one post by Pete Gagan really opened the eyes of all here. I think the members would really like as much information as possible in this legal world and sooner if possible to avoid this type of issue in the future. Onward and upward!

[Paps]

Thank you Pete. Paps

[Baytown]

Introduction!

Personally I think this web site is the biggest waste of club monies, but I also recognize many members enjoy it. Now that I pissed some of you off I can be reached by phone (330 832 1989) or E-mail RHa4280280 if you have concern about club. I will try to check web site out more often as president, but don't hold your breath. Rocky

That's a disappointing opinion Rocky, as for most of the International members, it's all we have. The camaraderie and assistance lent from the members via the web site is very important to a novice enthusiast like myself. Hopefully yourself and the board will realize the web site for what it truly is, a global forum for interaction and promotion of both your organization and the passion of all things vintage motorcycle. Disappointing tone of your reply as well considering your new position.

Ken from Australia.

[CT Riley]

Now, can Mr. Gagan inform us to the inner workings of the new AMCA Foundation? Was he "elected" by the board of directors to the postion of President of the Foundation or did he just appoint himself to that post. Will the AMCA Foundation need to report to anyone? Will they publish a financial statement, (like the AMCA has never done) or will the members be kept in the dark again. It's a red herring folks. Answer the tough questions please. And tell us again why we should believe you.

[MetalDude]

Now that we have more of the facts

Now that we have a couple more facts about this foundation, the near future is a little clearer. The $400K that we gave to the foundation is gone. Because we set up the foundation as a 501(c)3 and we are the 501(c)7 donor organization, that money can never return to us. The foundation can spend it on things of common interest, but the donor cannot receive anything in return from a donation.

To put this in other words, if the AMCA falls on hard times (for example, gets suckered into paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to a car museum) and we run out of money, the foundation is prohibited from giving us cash to bail us out.

Anther example, the foundation could decide to give $100K of their money to a archivist who blows the whole pile on useless copy machines. The AMCA would have no say over how the money was spent. It's their money now.

Another example, let's say the AMCA comes up with a great idea of sponsoring inner-city youth from the Kennedy High School Chopper project to do a month-long internship with Matt Olsen (what a cool idea!) The foundation could sponsor that scholarship through donations to Kennedy High School or grants to the kid to travel, etc.

In summary, the $400K is gone. It can't ever return to the AMCA, and without any direct control over how it gets spent, we have to hope that the new foundation's goals are aligned with ours.


Sean O'Neil

[rickeieio]

This all leads me to post one question and one observation:

Why the heck do we have $400k in the first place? This a club, not a financial institution. If we have that kind of cash to worry about, we need to either publish the magazine more often, or drop the dues. (flame suit on)

Don't be too harsh with Rocky. He's not a regular forum guy, and probably was overwhelmed when he first saw the discusion here. Perhaps our reaction would have been similar.

[62Pan]

Why the heck do we have $400k in the first place? This a club, not a financial institution. .

This is something I asked Mr. Gagan by letter when the dues were raised from $20.00 to $30.00. If at that time the finanical report showed us to be braking even and we have funds in the bank why raise dues and then raise them $10.00. This action was going to boost the club treasury another 100K plus each year ($10.00 times 10,000 members). I received a letter from Mr. Gagan stating that our club needed to boost its reserve as the club expenses were running higher each year. He also informed me he was surprised I complained and that only a handfull of members thought it was a bad idea.
I have been a member for 25 years and have seen many changes and most, if not all have made the club better BUT that does not meen we should sit by and not voice our opinions if we don't understand or agree with something. This is the check and balance we need to keep the club going in the right direction. Its good to see the forum is being used to raise good questions about the direction of the club.

Ken Myers #544

[20scout]

I still would like to know how much the club paid for the Torque Four and why we can't get a straight answer from any of the board members on this. It seems that this issue is always conviently blown off when members ask. Why won't you tell us?? If the price was published in the minutes, then it is public knowledge (or should be) and could be descussed out in the open. It's this lack of comunication that causes distrust among the membership (as this has been stated before). My first gut reaction is are you hiding something? Then in turn this makes me wonder what else the board is hiding from us. You have "tossed us a bone" to get us off your back but this has only raised more questions about what is going on. Put your cards on the table as I don't believe we are hearing everything.



Tim Alsleben aka "TR"
membership #6565
320-491-3525