Otis Chandler "1907" Harley in Fall Issue

[petri]

Serial Number

Well c.o. I tried sharpening up the image but it's still very hard to read. It could be 2299 alright but I wouldn't swear to it.

Howard

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Earl


The Factory line-up photo from a 1938 enthusiast doesn't show a 1906 model machine. But the 1953 enthusiast line-up photo does show a 1906 model. Years ago, when I was able to see the "1906" model motorcycle in person when it was on display at York, it just looked like a thrown together parts bike. Does anybody out there have some good photos of that machine to post?

and:

Does anybody have the accurate motor number to the Factory "1906" ??

I see you guys broke the 10,000 post mark in my absence.

Nice...

There is also a 1950 photo of the Factory collection WITHOUT a 1906 model, but like we know, another Factory collection photo from 1953 does show a 1906. Fritz recently posted that 1953 collection shot. If no one else does it first I can post the 1950 collection photo to demonstrate the missing 1906 model that late. (Yep: definitely NO 1906; but a 1950 Hydra-Glide that dates the pix: Photo published in Lore #1).

As already mentioned, the "1906" model in the current Factory collection has an 8-stud motor. Very suspicious as 1906 models were still 6-stud far as we know. In addition, my serial number data-base says that the Factory collection "1906" has serial number "2130."

Now what is an 8-stud motor with an above #2000 (1908?) serial number on it mean to the bike's claimed "1906" year status?

Almost certainly another funny-dated model that is no doubt a "parts-job" bike probably assembled between 1950 and 1953 to fill in that gap in the collection lineup (still no "1903" model tho. That would have to wait...)

Anyone surprised?

Harley knew that a 50th Anniversary was coming up (even if the correct year had been badly messed up by good old Lacy Crolius) and that would be a logical reason and time to fill in that long-standing gap in the collection. That it is a mix of parts with a 1908 motor would make sense if it were assembled so many years later (early 1950s).

Good enough for display purposes and why not?

Now in my cluttered memory I believe there is another Harley Factory photo and claim of a "1906" model back in the 1920s or 30s in Enthusiast and that later it mutated into either the "1905" or "1904" Factory collection bike by the time of the 1938 Factory collection lineup photo that Fritz also posted.

It came out of that same series of 1920s vintage photos taken in the corner of the Factory showing the wooden floor. Just now I jumped up and rummaged around in books and files but it didn't turn up, but I have it somewhere.

Wait!

I scrolled down a little more in the thread and Fritz also posted that one too with the caption: "Motorraeder...1906 Modell" on it. I do believe that's the very photo I was thinking of!

Now you guys should double-check this, but isn't this the same bike that is a "1906" in 1929/30 (Fritz's old German photo), then later by 1938 thru 2000+ became the "1905" tagged model in the Factory collection (1950 photo), but that by 2003 had transmutafiguremorphasized one more time (Willie G's book p.16-17) into a SECOND stand-in edition of the "Serial Number One" bike "1903-1904" model???????

You can identify that bike by its seat (until 2003) and always by its six-stud motor and dented/bashed tank.

I'm beginning to "get" the slogan: "If I have to explain you wouldn't understand."

Perhaps we need to amend that to: If somebody doesn't explain it, nobody will ever understand!

Now I've gotta go take a couple aspirins, lie down, and rest my aching brain.....

==========

How do you post photos so they open on the page and not as a hot link????

[HarleyCreation]

Here's the circa 1950 photo of the Factory bike collection. On the left are the earliest bikes and on the right the newest bikes. Since the newest is a shiny new 1950 Hydra-Glide that dates that photo for us.

On the left we see a tagged "1904" model, a tagged "1905" model, and then a gap in the lineup to a "1907" with springfork. No 1906 model in sight.

On the "1905" you can see the distinctly sculpted saddle that was on that bike from the 1920s thru 2000+.

[darrylri]

Sorry about the thread hijack...

Originally posted by HarleyCreation
How do you post photos so they open on the page and not as a hot link????

You need to have your photo available on the web someplace. That is, you need a URL that ends in .jpg or .gif. If you don't have your own web space, you can host your photos on a service that supports this like imageshack or smugmug. For example,

h ttp://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2006/IMG_5316med.jpg

Once you have this kind of URL or link, you suround it with [img ] and [/img ] brackets, like this, but with no spaces around the link:

[img ] h ttp://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2006/IMG_5316med.jpg [/img ]

(There are extra spaces above that have to be removed, but I put them in there so you'd be able to see how to code it.)

If you do it right, you'll then see this:



Sorry about the BMW picture, but that's what I have handy. I hope you won't mind, because it seemed like being able to include bigger pictures might help this very fascinating thread!

[HarleyCreation]

Thanks Darryl, you saved the day! I've been wondering how to post pix for ages. Besides, this thread's been hijacked about a hundred times already! One more time ain't gonna hurt...

======

I rummaged thru my files and found the American version of the 1929-30 German pix that Fritz posted. It appeared in the February 1929 issue of the H-D Enthusiast, p.6. The caption says it all: A "1906" model. In fact it's the same caption as on the pix Fritz posted, only in English.

Just one problem: A few years later when the bike next appeared it had a fender sign and it had now become a "1905" model.

I'll post both the 1950 and 1929 photos demonstrating how this Factory collection bike morphed over the years as to model year.

Notice the bike's sculpted seat in both pix. They didn't change this bike much if at all over the decades.

[AdminGuy]

A. the photo evidence is halarious-comical proof. Yes, Indian pulled the same shenanigans. I'd like to see someone drudge that up also.

B. thanks very much Darryl- much appreciated.

[c.o.]

I guess the folks as H-D figured if they put it on display however which way they pleased it would be taken as gospel truth. That thought if it was there has proven to be wrong now hasn't it!

I agree Paul.......an Injun thread be would be interersting too!!

[darrylri]

Glad to be able to help. I've been following this thread for months. I find the whole thing quite fascinating, even if I don't know much about Harleys (and Indians, for that matter).

[exeric]

I remember two very frustrating discussions I have had about early H-D history. The first was at a chopper shop I occasionally visited. The guy behind the counter knew I liked old bikes and wanted to quiz me using some "Easyriders" article as a proctor. I did pretty well until he got to the question; "How many motorcycles did H-D make in 1903 ? Even back then, in the AMCA magazine and the few credible books on the history of motorcycles, no one would commit to a specific number and generally defaulted to the standard algorithm to say one prototype. This was my answer, to which he replied, "WRONG !" "According to this, they made 5 motorcycles in 1903 !" At first you try the polite rebuttle, then you resort to ridicule, then you're reduced to name calling which often leads to violence. I have learned that people (including myself) will believe almost anything they see in print if it comes from a source they respect.

The second stupid discussion was with a drunk couple. I was at a gas station on my '40 Chief and this guy starts to tell me all about the history of H-D and Indian. I stopped him when he said that Indian had bought H-D in 1910 and that everything after that was basically an Indian. When I told him how ridiculous that was his girlfriend went berserk. She went past the rebuttle and ridicule stage to the foul name calling stage. The Indian got the last word because you couldn't even hear them over that beautiful reving flathead.

This post is a light in the darkness because it is seaking the truth, in spite of debunking long established and sometimes cherished assumptions.

[c.o.]

It's hard for people to accept a change in thought....especially after so many years of believing.

Check out ebay item #250075670682

It should provoke some discussion........at least it's advertised as a replica....

Herb were you aware of a "Strap-Tank" project????

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by c.o.
It's hard for people to accept a change in thought....especially after so many years of believing.

Check out ebay item #250075670682

It should provoke some discussion........at least it's advertised as a replica....

Herb were you aware of a "Strap-Tank" project????

It's baaackkkkk!

Yes, there have been rumors of such an early Harley replica bike operation underway and this listing blurb would seem to confirm it.

Excellent info!

Now isn't this the very same "1903" job that was offered on eBay a couple months ago but was pulled before the sale ended?

OLD AD Snips (posted 14 Nov. 2006 by Earl):

"A Once in a lifetime opportunity to purchase this Factory Recognized Restored Very First Model Motorcycle....This Motorcycle was restored with some Original Parts & Mostly New Parts that are Correct in every way for any 1903-04-05 Strap Tank Harley....Since Completed - this Motorcycle has spent the last 4 years on Display at Major Museums, Including the Antique Motorcycle Museum Hall of Fame "Heros of Harley-Davidson" Exhibit."

NEW AD Snips (posted 20 Jan. 2007):

"A Once in a Lifetime Opportunity to purchase this Factory Recognized, Duplication of Harley-Davidson's Very First Motorcycle... Since completion, this motorcycle has spent the last four years in major museums, including The Antique Motorcycle Museum Hall of Fame, two year, "Heroes of Harley-Davidson" exhibit."

The ad-writer of this new ad also provides the following VERY interesting and useful information about this so-called "Strap Tank Project" (full text):

A Once in a Lifetime Opportunity to purchase this Factory Recognized, Duplication of Harley-Davidson's Very First Motorcycle. This Replica uses one, of the Twenty, Authentically Remanufactured Motorcycle Engines, made available by the "Strap Tank Project". Five of which were made with a six bolt crankcase, to be used in the 1903, 04, and 1905 models, and the remaining fifteen were remanufactured with an eight bolt crankcase to be used in the 1906 through 1909 Models. Of the Five, Six bolt engines made, Only One was configured as a 1903 model. It could easily be reconfigured as a 1904, or 1905, by the adding of Fenders and a few other changes. There seems to be some question, among a few motorcycle historians, as to whether a 1903 Model was ever made By Harley-Davidson, although, at the present time, the earliest motorcycle in the Harley-Davidson factory archives museum, which had been listed for years as a 1905 model, has been, after extensive study and research, reconfigured, and now is listed as the 1903 model. It is this authentic and original 1903 Harley-Davidson motorcycle, displayed in the Harley-Davidson archives museum, which was used as the model for remanufactured replica that is now being offered FOR SALE. The new, replica motorcycle engines used in the "Strap Tank Project" were made in a large modern factory, using the latest, best machines, equipment and material available, and manufactured with such precision and skill, that most every part would be interchangeable in an original Harley-Davidson factory strap tank engine.

These Early, six bolt, strap tank type motorcycles are extremely rare, and do to the fact very few written records exist, there will be always some doubt as to the correct numbers made. If we use the numbers most often seen in publications, it is believed: only one 1903 model was made; two, (and "maybe" four or five) 1905 models were made.

It is my understanding that the Harley-Davidson factory has authorized the manufacturer of these twenty motorcycle engines to research the very few original strap type motorcycles known to exist, including these newly remanufactured ones, to be accounted for, numbered and included in the file so that in the years to come, there will be no question as to when each surviving strap tank motorcycle was made.

As a serious collector of antique Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycles, our collection includes an original factory made 1906 Harley-Davidson Motorcycle. All are insured, babied, loved, protected and kept in a vault! This is why we purchased to "strap tank project" motorcycles that we configured as a 1903 and a 1905 Harley-Davidson motorcycle. These were acquired to fill our collection, at an "affordable" price. Original strap tank motorcycles in today’s market bring over three hundred and fifty thousand dollars! You can have a "Smithsonian grade" replica strap tank motorcycle, at a relatively little cost, to ride in a parade, drive around the block or display in your collection.

In 2002, the cost of a finished replica motorcycle, including parts and labor, was about one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars.

This beautiful motorcycle would be unsurpassed in a museum display, or as a Harley-Davidson dealership show room feature. Put in your garage, put it in your living room, or ride it to Sturgis. Since completion, this motorcycle has spent the last four years in major museums, including The Antique Motorcycle Museum Hall of Fame, two year, "Heroes of Harley-Davidson" exhibit.

Don't miss this rare opportunity, as no more replica engines will ever be made again. This is your opportunity to purchase the best, most exciting, most fun motorcycle investment available today. Rest assured, these replicas will some day be recognized for what they are, an extremely limited, truly authentic, copy of the most desirable Harley-Davidson ever produced.

(snip)

I WILL NOT be answering ANY email questions!!!

That is very good and useful information and I appreciate it very much. Whether or not such a bike is an "investment" however, is debatable. What if this replica early Harley craze has just begun? What will that do to the current "investment" prices? If you were investing in rare artwork or antique guns would you buy a modern replica or copy? Why then with motorcycles? Because when all is said and done they will still just be modern copies. However, if a guy has big bucks to burn and wants a cool little fun bike this would be it!

Since he is selling a "1903" copy-bike here and mentioned those "few" historians who question "whether a 1903 Model was ever made By Harley-Davidson" his last sentence would have been more accurate were it modified in the following manner:

Rest assured, [this "1903"] replica will some day be recognized for what [it is], an extremely limited, truly authentic, copy of the most desirable Harley-Davidson NEVER produced.

Since he/they will no doubt read this thread (everyone else has), I challenge the ad-writer/bike owner or anybody else on this planet (or any other planet for that matter) to provide ONE SCRAP of original evidence showing that such a bike existed in 1903!

A 1903 photo, a 1903 document, a 1903 newspaper article, a 1903 drawing on a napkin, anything.

ANYTHING!

[Earl]

The write up in the ebay ad is the first time that someone has claimed that the recreation of the early Harley motors for the strap-tank-project was Factory authorized.

Did anybody catch that?

What does anyone know about such a claim?

[Harleyson's]

Better Pis 1953 & 1959

Friends,

found two better quality pics from the Antique Bike Room in 1953 and 1959:

1953:

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1a-jpg.html (*)

1959:

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1b-jpg.html (*)



Hope to see you guys all in Germany this June


Fritz

www.harleysons.de

[c.o.]

I would be curious as well to see if the Factory actually O.K.'d a reproduction. It seems to me that they are quite leery of letting anyone put their name on anything, let alone a re-creation of their heritage.....

Cool pics Fritz!!

[silentgreyfello]

photos

Great photos, Fritz!

Notice in the 1953 photo that the 1907 has an exhaust cutout rod / boss but not hooked up (1908 feature?). Interesting that none of the strap tanks have the throttle chains.

In the 1959 photo, the 1904 has now been labled as a 1903/4.

The 1905/6/7 all have ribbed fenders (1908 and later feature according to earlier info in this thread).

The 1906/7 both have fuel fillers in the front like the 1908.

The 1907 has the later Sager cushion fork like 1908.

The 1906 has a seat other than a Persons Champion.

It almost makes one think that these bikes were pieced together a bit.