old photos

[sirhrmechanic]

C.O. Wrote: "After studying this pic for awhile I don't think anyone will be able to convince me that Cyclones only came in yellow!!"

It definitely looks like a dark color... however... some of the early film emulsions would not register colors in the yellow range. This could cause the negative to show anything 'yellow' (including yellow metal like brass or copper) as unexposed. As a result, the silver would wash off the film substrate during fixing. Then when printed, the final print would show the color as dark or black.

I have to scan them and will post tomorrow. But we have some original pictures of the RR Springfield works that drove us nuts... because it showed all the 'brightwork' in the engine bay as black. Yet we know that these parts came bright. In the prints, however, they all look to have been blackened. This includes brass carb, copper lines, etc. It took several years before the mystery was solved...

Finally, I found the answer in a c. 1950's Leica manual that I got for Christmas last year. The Leica handbook talked about early emulsions and how they weren't fully panchromatic. Film prior to the late 1920's could be insensitive to light in the wavelengths reflected by yellow. As a result, yellow will come out looking black!

That doesn't mean that the bike in this picture is not a dark color (or a rich color like a deep red.) It certainly looks like it is. But there 'is' a possibility that all these bikes were yellow and that this picture is distorted by the early emulsions.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[c.o.]

Sirhr!! That certainly does shed a different light on things. I've seen black and white photos of Cyclones that appeared "light" in color that certainly would pass for yellow. I've also seen photos like the one posted above that gave me the impression that a dark "blue" may have been an option. I should mention though that the lighter appearing photos were later (post 30's for sure) and your explanation could very well have cleared up why this would be so.

[c.o.]

LaCrosse, Wisconsin circa. 1915... Does anyone see anything special about that Indian in the middle??

[yhprum]

Electric start?

[Sargehere]

How about electric start 1914 "Hendee Special" after its factory conversion to kick start under warranty? The chain-driven kickstarter replaced the 6-volt starter-generator unit on the left front of the engine.

The experiment was declared a failure, mainly due to the inadequacy of the batteries of the time (it carried two) and owners were offered conversion to kickstart if they shipped their motorcycles back to Springfield.

[pisten-bully]

I was going to say the electric headlamp, but it looks like there's another one in the photo too.

[duffeycycles]

vlgirl

vlgirl.jpgfor VL Girl

[sirhrmechanic]

C.O.: Here are a couple of the pictures I was talking about. This is at the Rolls-Royce Springfield works c. 1922 and the worker is assembling a Silver Ghost chassis.

Note some of the brightworks (particularly the brass carburetter) is black. But these were shipped polished. There are other parts that are also black, but were, in fact, shipped bright or polished.

rolls worker 1.jpg

This shows one of the line workers installing components. Note the carb on his right.

rolls worker 2.jpg

Here is a close-up. This is a bright yellow brass/bronze alloy casting. But clearly it shows up as black. Some of the other parts which are copper or have a higher copper content are not showing up as black. This is an indication that the film was not registering this particular wavelength. But look how it would be easy to assume this was painted or blackened!

rolls worker 3.jpg

Another picture showing lines on the firewall. Those are also polished brass with polished fittings. The manifold, on the other hand, is copper pipe. So it shows as 'bright.'

This drove us nuts trying to figure out why this car showed 'blacked' parts.

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS. For those Indian fans out there... the Springfield RR plant, in which these pictures were taken, was right next to the old Indian plant. The building still operates in Springfield as the Titeflex Hose Company. Sharp eyed travellers can see the RR logo in the brick chimney that still stands above the building. RR and Indian shared a rail yard/spur. RR specifically settled in Springfield Ma. (not Detroit) in 1921 because it could leverage a proximity to Indian, Springfield Armory and Smith and Wesson. This way they could attract the best machinists and fitters. They sucked a lot of talent away from these enterprises.

[c.o.]

I found a Haverford brochure online that is not in the AMCA library. if anyone is interested...http://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/docum...PTR=1515&REC=3 Seach the site for MOTORCYCLE and you will find a Flying Merkel brochure also

Thanks Scott! I see there are brochures for Sears and Indian too.

Electric start?

You nailed it!!!

How about electric start 1914 "Hendee Special" after its factory conversion to kick start under warranty? The chain-driven kickstarter replaced the 6-volt starter-generator unit on the left front of the engine.

The experiment was declared a failure, mainly due to the inadequacy of the batteries of the time (it carried two) and owners were offered conversion to kickstart if they shipped their motorcycles back to Springfield.

For a Harley guy you do know somethin' about *****s don'tcha?

Whoa!!! Is it just me or are the censors getting even tighter?

[c.o.]

C.O.: Here are a couple of the pictures I was talking about. This is at the Rolls-Royce Springfield works c. 1922 and the worker is assembling a Silver Ghost chassis.

Note some of the brightworks (particularly the brass carburetter) is black. But these were shipped polished. There are other parts that are also black, but were, in fact, shipped bright or polished.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6457[/ATTACH]

This shows one of the line workers installing components. Note the carb on his right.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6455[/ATTACH]

Here is a close-up. This is a bright yellow brass/bronze alloy casting. But clearly it shows up as black. Some of the other parts which are copper or have a higher copper content are not showing up as black. This is an indication that the film was not registering this particular wavelength. But look how it would be easy to assume this was painted or blackened!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6456[/ATTACH]

Another picture showing lines on the firewall. Those are also polished brass with polished fittings. The manifold, on the other hand, is copper pipe. So it shows as 'bright.'

This drove us nuts trying to figure out why this car showed 'blacked' parts.

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS. For those Indian fans out there... the Springfield RR plant, in which these pictures were taken, was right next to the old Indian plant. The building still operates in Springfield as the Titeflex Hose Company. Sharp eyed travellers can see the RR logo in the brick chimney that still stands above the building. RR and Indian shared a rail yard/spur. RR specifically settled in Springfield Ma. (not Detroit) in 1921 because it could leverage a proximity to Indian, Springfield Armory and Smith and Wesson. This way they could attract the best machinists and fitters. They sucked a lot of talent away from these enterprises.

Sirhr, thanks for the tutorial. I guess it just goes to show that even the early photos do not always portray the correct story.

[exeric]

How about electric start 1914 "Hendee Special" after its factory conversion to kick start under warranty? The chain-driven kickstarter replaced the 6-volt starter-generator unit on the left front of the engine.

The experiment was declared a failure, mainly due to the inadequacy of the batteries of the time (it carried two) and owners were offered conversion to kickstart if they shipped their motorcycles back to Springfield.

The front mounted step starter was standard from '12-'14. The Hendee Special also had a large and oddly shaped tool box. Just curious; why you think this is a H.S. retrofit.

[rwm]

Sirhr, thanks for the tutorial. I guess it just goes to show that even the early photos do not always portray the correct story.

a great lesson on photos.
i can't belive the h.d. lawyers didn't stop us from typing harley davidson before the indian lawyers stopped us.another first for the indians

[Sargehere]

The front mounted step starter was standard from '12-'14. The Hendee Special also had a large and oddly shaped tool box. Just curious; why you think this is a H.S. retrofit.

Looked at the step starter, the big toolbox, electric headlight, and took a wild guess. I knew the man who owns-owned the "complete" Hendee Special circa 1987, another co-founder of Ohio Valley Chapter, from Loveland, O.

I notice a 5-letter word censored out. You din't type I-N-J-U-N, instead of "Indian," did you? That might be on the "Politically Correct" banned list.

[c.o.]

I notice a 5-letter word censored out. You din't type I-N-J-U-N, instead of "Indian," did you? That might be on the "Politically Correct" banned list.

I guess I ought to go ahead and plead guilty.....

[c.o.]

LaCrosse, Wisconsin circa. 1915... Does anyone see anything special about that Indian in the middle??

Yikes, I gotta quit typing when I'm tired! After "Indian in the middle???" I should have added "of those two Harleys"!!!! Sorry fellas.... Whaddya think of the tool box and kicker on that one Eric?