Camel Back

[c.o.]

Tommo: The picture sure looks like the early Thoroughbred or Reading Standard but I am not sure when the first one was made. Tom wilcock #381

Here's some Reading Standard info courtesy of Tom. Food for thought.....

[c.o.]

The more I think about it the more I lean toward believing that the bike in the ad that Tommo posted is an Indian. With a date on the page of April 9th, 1902 it doesn't seem like any other camelbacks would have been on the market yet. Other machines wouldn't have appeared until Aurora marketed extra inventory to folks who wanted to essentially build a "kit" bike. From everything I've read it doesn't appear that this happend until 1903. Just a theory..... It still doesn't answer the initial question on why there is no brand name in the ad though....

Check out this Camelback! Handling on that bugger could get interesting!!!

[mr.spot]

The America Motorcycle is listed in Jerry Hatfield's Encyclopedia of American motorcycles as a Indian Clone. They may not have produced enough of them to justify putting the name on the tank. IF anyone wants proof that the Otis Chandler bike is not want it is claimed to be send me a message. I actually have evidence that will tell you that it is not what it is claimed to be.

[Old n Rusty]

hey guys newbie here with a question i was hoping the big guns could answer........when did the 3 stud configuration end? im still a little green on this stuff,any help greatly appreciated

[Chris Haynes]

IF anyone wants proof that the Otis Chandler bike is not want it is claimed to be send me a message. I actually have evidence that will tell you that it is not what it is claimed to be.

Why not post it here?

[phillie]

I have some pics from the Indian museum on my smugmug if you guys are interested in them. They are from Indian Day this year.

Indian Day 2011

[phillie]

here is a direct link to the other Camel Back, I can't remember what year they said it was though.

Camel Back

[mr.spot]

I really do not like to share a lot of this information publically as it seems to attract trouble for me. But since everyone wants to know I provide for you some information, once and only once. The Otis Chandler bike is too small to be one of the original Indian Prototypes. The indian prototypes were constructed out of a 24 inch diamond frame, and were most likely purchased from a bicycle mechanic in the Middletown area. The Otis Chandler bike has a 22 inch frame. The 22 inch frame was the standard size frame used in all Hedstrom Indians from 1902 onward. If you look at the motor it is a later three stud model, instead of the four stud model which the prototype was. Now in George Yarocki's book there is mention that all three bikes were dismantled and the parts were used for the 1902 models. This is also confirmed by Oscar Hedstrom in several of the interviews that he did give during his life time. Another thing that will also confirm the Otis Chandler bike is probably a 1904-08 bike is that there are pictures of the Indian prototype in the Springfield Musuem. If you take a look at the prototype pictures, that do exist you will see that the tank is smaller, and that there is no lettering on it. Finally, Hendee Manufacturing kept very meticulous sales records of every bike they sold whether it was a bicycle or a Indian motorcycle. If they did sell one of the three prototypes in 1901 there would have been a record of it. Having seen the sales records of Hendee Manufacturing in 1901-2 I can tell you that there is no mention of any motorcycles being sold in 1901. With that information in mind the Otis Chandler bike can not be one of the three prototypes.

[mr.spot]

Also I forgot to mention this the Camelback Indian in the Springfield musuem is a 1904 model. This bike was in Charlie Manthos' musuem and was actually credited as belonging to Oscar Hedstrom. That information is actually true, as Oscar Hedstrom and George Hendee did in fact both own 1904 Indian Motorcycles. About 10 years ago I was told a story by someone who worked for Oscar Hedstrom's daughter Helen, that there was once an Indian motorcycle on the property and that there were two people who were trying to get it. From what she said and what I was told at the Springfield Museum, That Charle Manthos did indeed get that motorcycle. Now if you have any furthur doubts about that particular motorcycle the Springfield museum has pictures of that motorcycle with Oscar Hedstrom and his family.

[Grizz]

Man this is a very interesting thread. I've learned more in the last hour than in the last 6 months researching the web.I have a list of serial numbers that I got from Dick Ollhoff. The earlier post gave a number 915 I think, according to the list # 621- 1167 is a 1904 1 3/4 horse. I have engine #H-217 that is a 1908 3 1/2 horse hacksaw intake valve with a 3 lug intake valve housing, seem that most were 2 lug. Dick said he has only seen one like it. I would like to make this little motor run again, at least that is my goal. Does any one know how the hacksaw intake works? I find it quite interesting that both the exhaust and intake operate off the same cam lobe. This is good stuff, lets keep this thread going! Oh by the way my first post..... Thanks Phil

[bill campbell]

welcome to the amca web site Phil I have most of a 1908 idian frame and I'm looking for a twin cly motor if you have a twin and would like to sell or trade let me know thanks billy

[fillibuster]

Man this is a very interesting thread. I've learned more in the last hour than in the last 6 months researching the web.I have a list of serial numbers that I got from Dick Ollhoff. The earlier post gave a number 915 I think, according to the list # 621- 1167 is a 1904 1 3/4 horse. I have engine #H-217 that is a 1908 3 1/2 horse hacksaw intake valve with a 3 lug intake valve housing, seem that most were 2 lug. Dick said he has only seen one like it. I would like to make this little motor run again, at least that is my goal. Does any one know how the hacksaw intake works? I find it quite interesting that both the exhaust and intake operate off the same cam lobe. This is good stuff, lets keep this thread going! Oh by the way my first post..... Thanks Phil

It seems/looks as if the cam lobe would have to "pull" the hacksaw linkage down to open the intake valve. I found this pretty odd, presumed better stuff from Hedstrom, and I think there were better varieties around to copy.
Grizz, check the subject index from '08 (I think), one of those issues has a race engine on the cover, and discussion inside. It'll get you juiced.

[Grizz]

Bill My serial# list shows that the 1908 twin is a 5 horse Serial # T-500 - T-1200. Mine is a single, I would like to get it back in running condition before I think about selling it. I would like to find a frame for it. Considering the rarity, might be a needle in a haystack tho.

welcome to the amca web site Phil I have most of a 1908 idian frame and I'm looking for a twin cly motor if you have a twin and would like to sell or trade let me know thanks billy

[mcarver]

Ok I finally am going to contribute here again after a few years hiatus in the interest of sharing and gaining more information. I have Indian magneto ignition single engine H701 and an original unrestored 1907-1908 diamond frame. When I got the frame nearly 20 years ago it was just a crusty frame, rear wheel and pedal cranks / eccentric. I have since collected the saddle, gooseneck, engine, minus mag and carb, front forks (probably off a model K or O due to the longer neck), reproduction torpedo tank from Chip (can't remember his last name, he was from upstate NY but moved to Maui several years ago). I have some old film camera pics that I'll scan in a few minutes and I'll take some modern digital pics of the rest soon to post.
Here is something interesting: my engine has a mechanical intake valve that runs off its own cam lobe. In the past some had insisted that this was a retrofit but I'm not convinced. Hopefully the pics I post later will be of help and maybe someone else has seen a very late 1908 with the mechanical (not hacksaw) type of intake. By the way, still looking for many missing parts.
-Mike Carver

[mcarver]

Here is a scan of some old photos as the frame was when I got it and a couple of years later (mid 90s) when as a mock up with a seat, forks, front wheel (incorrect single clincher) and the engine minus mag and carb, photo does not show the torpedo tank.