A real DLX-113?

[Snakeoil]

Got into the carb today. Looks like the drooling was from old gaskets, a loose float and somewhat distorted sheetmetal cover.

Sorted out the cover issue. Talked to Jim Walther who makes the thread repair for these carbs and he said they leak because of that tin top not fitting well. Since my gaskets were bad, I decided to cut new ones from 0.030 material and stack them up to give me room to put a gasket on top of the tin cover. Got that sorted out and just before putting it back together, noticed the float was loose on the arm and when I went to tighten it, my screwdriver slipped and I broke the float. It was one of the new foam floats, I assume from Ed Glasgow. So left a message for Ed to send me a new float. That was a $50 slip of the screwdriver. I might be able to repair it with gasoline proof epoxy.

I think my gasket on top will stop the drooling. Unfortunately, I won't be able to tell you until I have a float in place.

I did blow out the fuel lines while I was at it. Nasty stuff in there. 7 year old gas in those lines. Smelled like an the floatbowl on an old outboard.

regards,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

Let me first interject to "never say never" when it comes to fuels attacking epoxies and other compounds, because you never know what will come out of the Nation's pumps with the next "summer blend".

And Ed Glasgow is as trustworthy as they get!

On to float levels,
I have yet to receive any authentic literature for late-'29 to '39 models, and would be sincerely greatfull if some should surface;
In the meantime, I have been damn lucky.

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

More good points. Has the actual fuel level in the bowl been determined for needle valve closed position? I'm trying to think of a way to deal with floats of varying weights.

But then again, I suppose you could simply drill the foam floats and add lead shot and phenolic epoxy to match the weight of the original floats. That type of epoxy is not bothered by today's gasoline. Probably only take a few minutes to have a foam float weighing the same as an original, assuming the displacement is the same. I have a precision digital reloading scale and can measure weight down to a gnat's whisker. Still have the brass floats in my vintage Hondas and when I repair them I always weigh them to assure they are not loaded with solder.

Irv Truax referred me to the gent with the floats. His name is Ed Glasgow. I think Irv mentioned your name at the same time. I say that because your name is in parentheses next to Ed's name in my notes. Ed is near our camp so I'll probably drive over to see him. Might bring the bike to camp and play with it there.

regards,
Rob

[Rubone]

Zamak was a brand name of die-cast zinc. It was in common usage when the technique was new. In the UK it is Mazak...

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

The term "Zamac" is new to me, and I hope to get upon modern PC to google it soon, thanks!
Most of us call it 'die-cast zinc' at best, or at worst: "potmetal", as it seems to be the dross off the top of the pot.

My most skilled TIGmeisters can handle the later models, but anything in the 80 series seems to explode.

Many are cutting the latest float material.
Few however, have determined the proper proportions with the ultralight foam to deliver the same buoyancy as the original corks.
Folks should beware of molded elliptical floats that weigh three times as much (shown on the left-side scale pan in the attachment).
Originals average close to 3 g.
Beware also, that the potmetal models used a different size than the bronze bowls.

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

Thanks for the quick reply. I was a machinist in a former life so I understand your points well. Although I must admit that I did not know you could TIG weld Zamac, which is what I believe this are made from.

I have spoken to a gent that makes new floats from modern milspec materials that are not affected by today's fuels. Although that could very well be what is already in the carb since the bike was restored about 6 years ago. Guess I'll find out when I take it apart to stop the drooling. Like that term better than overflow. Fits the age of the bike. Fire is a scary thought and my first when I noticed onto what the fuel was drooling that first day. No battery in the bike at the time.

Thanks again.

regards,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

We all are only students of these machines.
We all ask for help.

The '38 DLX113 was different from the '39 by its choke assembly, at least, and frankly, I figure even that may have changed within both model years. (Judging by the fossil record across my benches, anyway. Pristine '40 DLX124s do not even agree with each other.)

If all things are in order, the carb should not drool.
Many did, and many caught fire from the ignition beneath it.
Your replacement float must not only resist modern fuels,
but it must be of the same buoyancy as originals.

The bowlstems of these later potmetal models are TIG-able,
but recut threads of potmetal filler rods are little better than the originals, if that.
Most repair appliances are 'one-offed' from brass, with carefull attention.
Beware of soft sleeves of aluminum, or anything that is pinned, as the eventual fatique may hinder any future repairs short of welding, and subsequent re-machining.

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

May I jump on this thread since it would keep the info all under the same topic heading?

I am a new 439 owner with zero experience with Indians. The bike is fully restored. When I brought the bike home it puked gas all over the inside of my trailer. I assumed the float was stuck, sunk or similar. I also noticed that the floorboard mat on that side was puckered a bit. At first I thought it was heal wear, but now know it is from gasoline. Carb is the same DLX 113, but realize the model might be different this being a 1939 version.

In another thread I had asked about lean angle, since this bike seemed to lean quite a bit compared to other bikes I own. But it appears to be okay. So, my question is, is this carb/bike prone to overflowing from the bowl when on the sidestand? Is there a fix, like perhaps adding a tube to the vent (don't even know if that is possible) to raise the height?

Based on what I read here so far, it appears that overflowing on the sidestand and starving for fuel are conflicting issues where one feeds the other. Is that a valid assessment.

I'm in the middle of a resto on another bike and prefer to work on one at a time. So, I'm gathering info on my new baby for spring, when I hope to sort her out and have her on the road.

And if adding questions to another's thread is frowned upon here, just give me a smack and I'll start a new thread on the topic.

Thanks,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rich!

I discarded the pinning approach after observing the failed previous attempts of others.
The nature of the brittle potmetal just sees the pin as a convenient stress riser.

The approach in my photo requires much less machining to the bowlstem, as only the damaged threads are removed with a common piloted valveguide cutter, and the nozzle bore is tapped to retain the appliance. The more meat left on the bowlstem, the more strength it retains.

There is no need for a thread-locker, as it is intended to be removeable; Red Loctite is futile in my local fuel anyway.

When there are enough threads left to pick up on, I can also merely turn the bowlstem to 11/16"-20, for special bowlnuts that I commissioned. This allows a substantial savings over an appliance repair.

Later potmetal models can also be welded up and re-machined, of course, but early models, such as the 80 series, have resisted my best tigmeister's attempts, so far.

....Cotten

[rwar]

Not quite. I have this one: https://www.jerrygreersengineering.c...fs/JG-3473.pdf. You're supposed to machine and rethread your old stem then screw this onto it. But my carburetor already had a different kind of repair kit, where the stem has been turned down smooth and the new threaded sleeve is held on it with a small roll pin. I presume all I can do now is hold the new sleeve in place the same way.

Thanks,
Rich

[T. Cotten]

Rich!

Does your 'sleeve' look like this one?

....Cotten

[rwar]

I guess it makes sense to pass this one up and just get my original carb going. I've not gotten much riding in on this bike and I might be letting impatience lead me astray.

It has a sleeve on the stem to replace damaged original threads, which I managed to mess up again in the course of trying to get the float level set somewhere between overflow on the kickstand and starving on full throttle. I have a new repair kit from Greer's to use on it, and have built up the kickstand for a somewhat less drastic angle.

Thanks,
Rich

1939 Indian Four 4.jpg

[T. Cotten]

Anything could be made to get down the road, Rich, of course!

But eventually, you will want it "correct".

The trick is to avoid spending twice.

....Cotten

[rwar]

I was sure hoping Mr. Cotten would jump in on this.

It was the bowl that was throwing me way off, I guess. So the incorrect bowl, which looks like a newer Linkert to me, would actually fit and work on the body that was made for the type of bowl with the long tin lid?

Rich

[T. Cotten]

Sorry to get into this so late, Folks,

But I must borrow a PC to view ebay.
I cannot see anything but a thumbnail otherwise and that one indeed has a '40 bowl, as Glr101s noted.
The bare finish and broken choketab only tell you it is a raw core.
I have no idea what that throttlelever is...

The real criteria for a 113 is how many times it has been on fire.
And even ones that appear pristine on the outside can still require a re-bore, due to the fluid nature of the potmetal. Many are egged to the naked eye.

Beware of re-stamped 112s, as the idle bleed holes are wrong, and not easily repaired.

The next pig in the poke would be the eroded bowlstem thread issue, which is the scourge of all potmetal models. The appearance of threads alone is often not enough.

Their issues go on and on.
I have two on the bench currently, and I confess they have been here a while!

....Cotten