A real DLX-113?

[Snakeoil]

Thanks Tom. I just went out and using a strip of paper, which is about 3 mils, I inserted it into the rectangular opening at the 6 o'clock position on the venturi and then tried to run it up and between the body and the OD of the venturi. For both right and left tries, it only went up about an 1/8" or so. So, that tells me the remainder of any clearance is 3 mils or less.

I'm riding in the Motogiro this weekend. Starting time is 8am tomorrow morning. So don't take a lack of response over the weekend to any other input as a lack of interest.

regards,
Rob

[Snakeoil]

I got my new float from Ed over the weekend and installed it today. Also cut a new bowl gasket from cork rather than use the gasket I cut from paper last week. I did a stack up of clearances and installed the float bowl with a thin paper gasket on top of the cover as well. We'll see if that stops the drooling.

My concern was the cover top might be without a gasket so the bowl is vented. But then I found that the bowl vent is thru the passage for the high speed needle valve. Hopefully, it was not drooling from there. That would mean the fuel shut off valves and/or the float valve are not working properly. I cannot imagine that the bike leans so far to the left that the fuel level can move to a point that high.

I think part of the shutdown procedure will be to shut off the fuel valves with the engine running so I lower the float level a bit before parking it.

When I dug into the float bowl, I also found that the float was loose on the arm, which may have also contributed to a higher than normal level.

regards,
Rob

[Snakeoil]

I realize I've completely hijacked this thread. My apoligies if I've stepped on the original poster's toes.

My gasket arrangement worked fine. Had to snug up the bowl nut a bit to stop weeping there. I was hesitant to go too tight since a 1 inch wrench provides very little feel for dealing with soft threads.

The carb still drools, but not from gaskets. It is out the breather hole on the high speed needle passage. It's not the lean angle as the stand was on a 2x6. I suspect the float needle is not sealing well or the float is rubbing the sides of the bowl. I tried to assure that was not the case, but the side to side wobble in the float arm is sizeable.

regards,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

Since new levers are scarce,
I ground the jaws of a pair of "vise-grips" to closely match the pivot portion of the float lever.
A gentle squeeze closes the hole partially, and a reamer makes it sweet again, taking up much of the side slop and wobble.

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

Thanks. I was thinking about how to solve the issue.

I wonder if I could drill the jaws to provide a nice uniform squeeze on that pivot bushing. Not sure I have a reamer that size. Need to go check my coffee can of reamers my Dad brought home to me from a garage sale about 25 or 30 years ago. I know it's full of very small reamers. I was thinking of making a tiny bushing, but that could be an exercise in frustration.

Thanks,
Rob

[Snakeoil]

Looks like pivot repair is on the to-do list for today. I have two issues. One of the petcocks I rebuilt with o-rings yesterday leaks at the seat. It did not leak before so I assume I just have to index it one or two threads. I think I'll remove it and pressure test it to get the right seal position.

Float is definitley dragging on the side of the bowl. I wish the float traded a bit of depth for a smaller OD. I went back out in the shop after posting yesterday and the smell of gas was heavy. My lift was covered. Glad I had not changed the oil yet. It's shot now for sure.

regards,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

A DURABLE float can be sanded without issue if your patience fails,
but you shouldn't have to...

Its OD was based upon NOS examples, but it is thinner to account for its increased buoyancy. A little more won't hurt a bit.

What float level setting did you find in your literature?

The petcock is critical of course, as no floatvalve can ever be expected to be absolute. They are designed to run open.

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

Problem solved. Rather than sand the float or crush the pivot tube, I replaced the pivot tube. My pivot pin measured 0.095" and a number 41 drill is 0.096. So, I knew I could make a new pivot bushing. I rummaged thru my coffee can of pin reamers and found a 0.096" reamer. Now I was set.

Machined a new pivot bushing from brass, made it 0.020 wider (0.005 clearance to the bowl) to remove side play and after removing the old bushing, soldered in the new one. Slicker than pig snot. Float sits in the middle of the bowl with near zero side wobble.

For guys doing this for the first time, use a small LED flashlight thru the center hole of the float to light up the bowl under the float. Gives you a clear view of the clearance on each side of the float.

Pressure tested my petcocks today. Even the one that did not leak, bubbled a bit when tested. So, I'm going to send them off to Conrad Lytle and let him rework them. I'll see if he pressure tests them when he's done. IMHO that should be the final test they have to pass after a refurb.

In the meantime, I found a few more nits to play with. Have the tanks off so gives me room to fix those few other "issues". Need to do some research too. I think I'm missing a thrust bearing in the speedo cable housing.

regards,
Rob

[Snakeoil]

Tom,

Just realized that I never answered your question regarding float height setting. I have two resources that provide float height settings.

In the Riders' Instruction Book, which according to the note hand written on the cover, is for all models from 1938 thru 1951, it does not call out the carb type or model specifically. It just has a section on carb adjustment and says that the float should be set 1/4" from the top of the bowl with the float valve closed.

The other resource is a Service Shots bulletin No. 99 dated 10/18/39 that says the float should be set 11/32" from the top of the bowl cover with the valve on it's seat. I measured my cover/gasket thickness and subtracted it from the 11/32" and got 1/4" from the top of the bowl. This was with a gasket I cut from cork/rubber sheet gasket that is about 1/32" maybe more. I can measure if you like. The new gasket I got from Greer's is more like 1/16". So, if the Greer gasket is the correct thickness, then that would make it 3/32" from the top of the bowl. I found mine set at 1/4" and that is where I set it when I put it back together yesterday. Actually a tad more than 1/4".

Something I noticed when I pulled the bowl back off the other day is the cork gasket I made swelled from the gasoline. I would think that's a good thing as long as it is captured by the cover lip. But after sitting on my bench for a day, it shrunk significantly to the point that I would not be able to reuse it or even use it as a pattern to cut another. Makes me wonder what would happen over the winter if I ran the bowl dry and then let it sit. It might shrink to the point it would pull out from between the cover and the top of the bowl.

regards,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

The Rider's Handbook refers to Linkerts, of course.
The 1940 "beanpot" Scheblers have been cited at ¼" as well, so the October '39 service shot is a bit of an enigma; I do not believe I have a copy.

There were two styles of "tin-lid" bowls, early and late, and I would appreciate anyone's references on these settings, as there seems to be conflicts.

And yes, cork/rubber composites are a problem in modern fuels.
I use straight cork; It is hardly satisfactory either, but more compliant than paper.
Some literature prescribes "caulk" upon the top of the lid, however, I cut thin paper as you did.

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

I did not even think you could buy straight cork anymore. I have a roll in my spares, but it is old and brittle. Guess I should take better care of it. Now I'll be on a quest for pure cork gasket material

The Indian Four Cylinder News, Vol 13, No 1, from Spring 1978 featured the 439 Indian. It contains a collection of info on that model. In it were excerpts of Service Shots and that float setting was one of them. I got a reprint of the issue from Chuck Myles Indian.

My scanner is not compatible with my new computer (damn HP won't update their software) so I had to take a picture of the section. Here it is.



Does anyone make a viton needle and seat for the float bowl?

regards,
Rob

[T. Cotten]

Rob!

My wife brings home Portuguese cork sheet in two thicknesses from the fabrics store in the big city.
Look for the finest grain you can.

But frankly, I get most gaskets pre-cut from Fickau Prototypes.

I appreciate the pic; hope I can view it when I get home.

I am not aware of any Schebler soft valves, and not really shopping for any. Mr. Fickau's exact reproductions are admirable.
I did encounter my first Schebler "Grose Jet" though, just this week!

....Cotten

[Snakeoil]

Auto Zone sells it but does not stock it. Mr. Gasket offers it, too. I thought about hobby stores after posting. Never thought about fabric stores.

Greer's gaskets are rubber/cork and 2.2mm thick.

Regards,
Rob

[Snakeoil]

Follow up on drooling carb

Although not my thread, since I've done such a great job of highjacking it, I figured I might as well post the follow up info on how I made out with the carb issue.

Although ordering new gaskets from Greer's, I ended up using a combination of hand cut and manufactured components.

I installed the new foam float from Cotten onto my repaired float arm.

Installed a new float needle and seat from Thomas Fickau.

Cut a 1/16" rubberized cork gasket for the float bowl to cover surfaces.

Cut a 1/32" paper gasket for the cover to carb body surfaces.

Used a Viton o-ring for the internal bowl to carb stem surfaces.

Used a plastic (black, not sure if type of Nylon or Delrin) that was on the carb originally for the nut to bottom of bowl surfaces.

Conrad Lytle rebuilt both my petcocks with new stems.

Reassembled and put gas in the tank. So far, carb is bone dry. Bowl is very cold so a good indication that it is full of gas. I left the petcock open (only filled one tank) and left the bike on the side stand. No trace of gas whatsoever. Knocking on wood as I type this, but I think I have the drooling carb/flooding engine issue solved.

Thanks to all who helped with suggestions, comments, and referrals for parts.

regards,
Rob

[Snakeoil]

As a follow up to the follow up, the thicker Greer rubberized cork top float bowl gasket just barely weeped enough to wet the outside of the bowl at the front of the float pivot point. So I cut a new gasket, this time from Interface Solution N-8094 paper material which is 0.062 thick. I also put the bowl on a flat plate with 240 grit emery and sanded it dead flat.

I also suspected that the pivot screw, although brass and snug, might be weeping a tad so I cut a small gasket from 1/32" paper to go under the head.

Kept the o-ring inside the bowl and thin paper gasket at the nut along with the thin paper gasket on top of the cover. This seemed to be the magic combination Carb stayed bone dry.

Now my only issue is the lean angle. Even with the new stand, it is better, but still too much. Starting the bike on the side stand resulted in gas running out of the filter like crazy. So, I'm going to weld a 1-1/2" extension to the foot of the repop stand to see if this cures that problem.

regards,
Rob