NOS, OEM Panhead LEFT motor cases; Question.

[Bobber59]

I have never seen a factory replacement case without something stampped on the bottom. I recently saw a set of flatside shovel cases with the number 66 on each side.

I have one Chris. Let me correct myself...this NOS, OEN case I have is actually '55-62, possibly '63/64...I'm not THAT adept at distinguishing if one could! The strange thing here is IT DOES HAVE A DATE CODE "9/66" EMBOSSED ON THE INSIDE OF THE CASE (???). Can't explain that but it is definately NOT the '65, or '66-69 case where the change was made to mate to the sealed primary.

I've come to understand no stamped production number was not that unusual. If I understand correctly, it occured as I stated; a replacement case sold by the factory BEFORE it was lined bored to a matching case half. If I heard correctly, the Factory sold stock parts in 68/69- possibly into '70 during difficult economic times. No authentication of this. But lots of rumors existed, you must know more being a previous dealer I'm sure.

But it stands, I own an NOS, OEM left case half; Blank VIN boss, NO production numbers on the belly and the expected 24541 55. There is a lightly stamped "9" at the increased size casting around the case bolt just in front of the front cylinder AND a lightly stamped #"31" in 3/16th's size on the underside between the case bolt hole just under the front frame motor mount to the next case bolt hole ....BEFORE reaching the area where the production numbers would be stamped. On the belly, where the production numbers would be, in YELLOW paint, the numbers 1776 about 1 3/8th inch high. Don't know what that is....but it's not a stamp. This cases ARE NOS, OEM. An enigma?

[pete reeves]

Bobber 59.
Where is the existing Vin /identification mark on your newly titled bikes if it is not on the Cal products cases?

What you are proposing to do is controversial. And could be interpreted by different people in different ways,
You must have your own doubts about the efficacy or legality of you stamping the cases otherwise you would not have asked the questions in the first place.

If the bikes are legal without having Vin numbers on the engine and you prefer to have original crankcases rather than Cal product crankcases you could just swap them. If you do not stamp any numbers on them you will not have changed any thing relating to the bikes identity.


Chris.
I have heard and seen it written on a number of occasions that the Harley factory has a record that can match line bore numbers to the original Vin numbers of early production bikes and that this has been used by the police to confirm the identity of bikes.

I have asked two separate employees at the Harley archives about this early record and both told me that it may have existed at one time? But they did not know of its existence now.

Do you know of any recent (Last 20 years) incident that this early record has been used.

Pete Reeves 860

[INLINE4NUT]

I have to agree with Chris on this 100 % !! I think you are asking for TROUBLE! That being said they are yours do as you wish ! It would swwm in my opinion youd save them for a nice original MC in need of repair,that makes the most sense to me !!!!what ever you decide GOOD LUCK!!!!

[pete reeves]

Chris.

I have seen W and U half cases that had no numbers on them except cast numbers and I own a set of NOS knuckle cases that have no numbers on them except the cast numbers.

Pete Reeves 860

[Bobber59]

Thank you INLINE4NUT and Pete Reeves AND Chris for your opinions.

Yes, it is tempting to stamp my own cases knowing in my life time, I do not intend to sell my two bikes in question. One is my first bike, had her over 40 years. The second I bought from a friend who eventually passed away.

I recently purchased these NOS cases, with the intention of putting them on both these bikes. My first bike had a damaged case right from the time I bought her, it had been welded a time or two and I replaced the case in the early 80's finally after worrying about it going south on me again. I used a new Cal Products case. Over the years, that old damaged OEM case was trashed, I know it wasn't used by anyone else. The one I bought from a dying friend, also has a Cal Products case...I don't know it's history but I pretty certain I hold the original Title.

Anyway, thanks guys.

Jim

[Chris Haynes]

I have asked two separate employees at the Harley archives about this early record and both told me that it may have existed at one time? But they did not know of its existence now.

Do you know of any recent (Last 20 years) incident that this early record has been used.

Pete Reeves 860

I know for a fact that it exists. It is not in the archives. It is in the Service Department. A numerical listing of every line bore number ever stamped. With the engine number assigned to that case in the next column. When the Service Department received the post card from a dealer with the VIN that was applied to a replacement case it was added to this list. I have seen this list with my own eyes in 1988.

[Chris Haynes]

Chris.

I have seen W and U half cases that had no numbers on them except cast numbers and I own a set of NOS knuckle cases that have no numbers on them except the cast numbers.

Pete Reeves 860

I have never seen a case without some kind of number. I has seen a single digit and two digits but never a blank. Full line bore numbers were only on matched sets.

[Chris Haynes]

Over the years, that old damaged OEM case was trashed, I know it wasn't used by anyone else. Jim

Is it still in your posession?

[Rubone]

Hi Guys,
I have a -53 left case, NOS, unstamped but that has had the linebore numbers removed by the factory. I have had the case for over 30 years and got it from the dealer it was sold to. It had the part number on a tag attached to a stud originally but the tag is long gone.The area where the number was looks like it was touched to a big belt sander or the like as it has a large sanded off patch. the VIN number boss is pristine untouched. I'll dig it out and see if there are any other markings. I remember the dealer saying that if a pair was damaged after they were matched the good case was then sold as a replacement part. This is the same dealer that I wrote of a while back that also had a large inventory of old parts that were considered factory seconds and sold to dealers as repair parts. Heads and cylinders with poor fin castings, etc.
Robbie

[bmh]

Something I found of interest in regard to the later case in question. While all my 50's parts catalogs list part numbers for each individual case half, my 61-76 book lists cases as sets only. I would expect them to be machine matched and lined and would have to assume they would've been numbered as a set with the serial boss left blank. Don't know when they started that but by the early 70's it would appear that single cases were not available. Also while line bore is critical, I don't believe it's the only machined match on a set of cases. Cylinder decks are matched together as are the motor mounts. As such I always figured that most dealers ordered as a set anyway to save time and money on matching them up. Also of note is that Palmer states that 55 &up left cases do not have casting dates. So I guess I just gotta wonder how anyone can be so sure that a single case without any real identifying marks or supporting documentation is in fact genuine? As for the number thing........... I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.

[Rubone]

In about '72/'73 I saw a bike that had a mid '60s Shovelhead engine stamped with Knucklehead numbers. When I questioned the owner he stated that the cases were sent as replacements for a pair of broken stock Knucklehead cases that had been returned to his dealer in California. I looked into it a little further and discovered that H-D would do that if the original cases were sent to them by a valid dealership and with the proper forms. H-d would stamp them to match the originals. I'm sure the font would have been wrong but the owner stated he had all the documentation from the factory and the dealer and the State of California accepted it all. I wish I had one of those forms to verify this but I do not. By the next year or so the factory quit that program. Any old dealers out there remember any such thing?
Robbie

[Rubone]

Now a different story! I once had two Knuckleheads and would laugh because one had two sets of numbers and the other had none! One was a state titled bike that had a builders title number stamped into the case below the old numbers which were deemed invalid. The other had been built by an old local dealer using an NOS left case and never stamped it although it had a title. One day rummaging in the parts stash i picked up a left knuckle case and it had the numbers on my title in it. the case was perfectly good so I carried it in and asked about it. The dealer just laughed and said he just grabbed a title out of his files when he built the bike and never bothered to see if he actually had the cases! . I talked him into letting me take the case and swap it out for the blank one which I returned to him. I sold the double stamped bike and never knew what happened to it. This was in the early '70s.
Robbie

[Chris Haynes]

Back in the late '60's I turned in a pair of destroyed 1952 K Model cases and got a set of new 1969 XLH cases with the '52 number on them. I also ordered a pair of 1964 FL cases with 1952 FL numbers on them. In the '60's if you bought a new engine it came without a serial number on it. In the early '70's H-D was selling factory rebuilt motors with the original number lined out and a new number stamped below it.

[Bobber59]

Something I found of interest in regard to the later case in question. While all my 50's parts catalogs list part numbers for each individual case half, my 61-76 book lists cases as sets only. I would expect them to be machine matched and lined and would have to assume they would've been numbered as a set with the serial boss left blank. Don't know when they started that but by the early 70's it would appear that single cases were not available. Also while line bore is critical, I don't believe it's the only machined match on a set of cases. Cylinder decks are matched together as are the motor mounts. As such I always figured that most dealers ordered as a set anyway to save time and money on matching them up. Also of note is that Palmer states that 55 &up left cases do not have casting dates. So I guess I just gotta wonder how anyone can be so sure that a single case without any real identifying marks or supporting documentation is in fact genuine? As for the number thing........... I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.

It's genuine, Brian...but I guess you would just have to take my word on that!

[bmh]

It's your case so it's your opinion that matters. I guess what I'm saying is I can't see the Factory just shiping out totaly blank, unmarked cases. There would absolutly need to be a paper trail to insure that the Factory was not aiding in theft or fraud. The issuing of vehicle I D numbers has always been a very serious affair and since the left case is the only part on these machines to bear that they would have to be kept track of in some way. How could something be tracked if it is not marked or serialized in some way? I've seen quite a few of these unused replacement cases over the years and have always been sceptical of them for the reasons mentioned as well as I don't see the factory having just shipped them out and not getting testy with the dealer when the paperwork didn't come back. As for checking your numbers, My brother in law has had his local chief of police check numbers for him. I've had a local dealer do it for me.