Hard ti Kick Panhead

[dukekleman]

Bill,

Those answers help me out with some thoughts I had and have.
Is there any chance you measured the run out of the main drive gear, at the bearing surface for the needle bearings, while rotating it over the transmissions mainshaft, after the new bushing was installed and sized?

I ask because I have seen many that have unacceptable run out afterwards. 0.004" is not uncommon but unacceptable. When this runout issue is coupled with proper needle bearing clearance it causes great misalignment and binding 10" out on the opposite side where the kick-starting gears take action.
This is aggravated by resistance added from the engine under compression. Also the binding of the rubber seal in the kicker arm bushings can contribute to more resistance as well.

I'm also wondering how you install your hydraulic lifters. Many people install them so that the lifter is some what "Dry" of oil and soft/spongy. This causes less effective camshaft duration which causes hard kicking.
If they haven't all pumped up properly and/or bleeding down, kick starting will be very hard.
This is especially true for the two Exhaust lifters. They are typically the most problematic with Valve train angle. Exhaust lifters that do not pump up and move the pushrod/valve through its designed Camshaft timing have a far greater affect on increasing cylinder pressure than the intake lifters.
Dynamic compression is based on a few factors, RPM being one of them.
So the cylinder pressure you are measuring with your gauge kit coupled with the difficult slow kicking motion would also make sense.

Hope this helps get to the bottom of the issue or issues,

Duke Kleman

[billpedalino]

Bill,

Those answers help me out with some thoughts I had and have.
Is there any chance you measured the run out of the main drive gear, at the bearing surface for the needle bearings, while rotating it over the transmissions mainshaft, after the new bushing was installed and sized?

I ask because I have seen many that have unacceptable run out afterwards. 0.004" is not uncommon but unacceptable. When this runout issue is coupled with proper needle bearing clearance it causes great misalignment and binding 10" out on the opposite side where the kick-starting gears take action.
This is aggravated by resistance added from the engine under compression. Also the binding of the rubber seal in the kicker arm bushings can contribute to more resistance as well.

I'm also wondering how you install your hydraulic lifters. Many people install them so that the lifter is some what "Dry" of oil and soft/spongy. This causes less effective camshaft duration which causes hard kicking.
If they haven't all pumped up properly and/or bleeding down, kick starting will be very hard.
This is especially true for the two Exhaust lifters. They are typically the most problematic with Valve train angle. Exhaust lifters that do not pump up and move the pushrod/valve through its designed Camshaft timing have a far greater affect on increasing cylinder pressure than the intake lifters.
Dynamic compression is based on a few factors, RPM being one of them.
So the cylinder pressure you are measuring with your gauge kit coupled with the difficult slow kicking motion would also make sense.

Hope this helps get to the bottom of the issue or issues,

Duke Kleman

Duke,
Your suggestions are definitely worthy of consideration. I've also communicated with Carl Olsen (whose opinion I also greatly respect) and he suggested examining the kicker/transmission train as well. Given that the primary side must be disassembled if I end up (worst case) removing and disassembling the motor, your suggested observations are just another step along the way. At that time, an end play check of the main drive with the sprocket installed would be an easy measurement. I also plan to remove the kicker cover and check for signs of kicker gear misalignment.

As for the lifters, I've always bled them dry before installing, and use the 4-turns out adjustment at the tappet's lowest position. There is no binding of the lifter train. I know this because the last time I worked on this problem I installed a spare set of heads without the pan covers, and fully rotated the motor checking the valve system movement. Also, this time, with the running heads installed, I raised each pushrod to it's highest point and using a prybar, observed additional movement with the valve fully open. Also, with the spark plugs removed, I can turn the motor over fairly easily by hand from the kicker pedal. So, it seems appears that any increased resistance from the lifters and tappets isn't significant enough to cause what I'm experiencing.

I work away from home during the week and my schedule will allow some panhead time in the next couple of weeks, so I'll keep you posted as to my findings.
Thank you (and Carl) so much for giving this problem such careful consideration. It's quite a head-scratcher for me...

Best Regards,
Bill Pedalino

[dukekleman]

Bill,

Sometimes I wish a short video clip could be attached.I believe it might be helpful?
I look forward to the discovery and resolution.

Duke