Rumor and shadows

[cdndewey]

Steve....I think there's a lot of people peeping over the edge. I know I am, as I'm a newly acquired knucklehead (47EL) owner trying to learn as much about them as I can so I'm reading pretty much every post in the knucklehead section.

I know of two 36's, one I have seen, having ridden with the owner, and the other heard of in pieces which I am going to try and see one day. The one I saw belonged to a buddy who promised on the day of the birth of his best friend's son that he would give his son the bike when he turned sixteen. That was sometime in the late 70's and he held true to his word, It was a chopper at the time, with a fairly unmolested frame other than the tank mounts if I can remember correctly as it had a Hummer tank on it. I know the dad didn't give it to the kid when he turned sixteen as the kid was a hellion and he said he didn't deserve it. I don't know what ever happened to it as everyone has since moved on of that bunch I hung out with and I only see one of them a couple of times a year. I'll be seeing him in a couple of weeks when I head over to the mainland so I'll ask him if he knows.

[pete reeves]

The 1939 parts book lists; Transmission support bracket 2263-36a as being used on Later 36 And early 37 61” bikes. This I think would imply that some late 1936 frames had the support bracket.

The 1939 parts book also lists; U bolt frame shims 13051-36a First 1936 61” frame using one piece safety guard. This I think implies that the front down tubes changed before the end of 1936 production.

The Harley-Davidson Data book lists total 61” production for 1936 as 1704.
I have also seen it published that production was nearly 2000.

I have a 18 pictures of good 1936 Vin numbers the highest of these is 264#. If production was nearly 2000 its strange that I do not have a picture higher than 264#

Pete Reeves 860

[Steve Little]

It is understandable that there's a lot of people reading the posts to learn something....thats the very reason the thread is here.

The AMCA is about "the posterity of old bikes" that we have a passion for. It is also turning into a information bank for current and future enthusiasts to draw on.

1936 is a iconic model.
And so many people are chasing them, and a few people are lucky enough to own one or be restoring one.

The value of these bikes is in the "small fortune range" and this particular subject "when varified" is about as rare and valued to the prospective owner/buyer as you can get.

Having concise/accurate information on when the change of frames was made is important to 1936 owners, judges, and more importantly....friday night beer sesions in workshops.

Hi cdndewey.
If you track down that old bike, get its VIN, Note the frame style and check for the 5th mount and let us know.

Pete.
Nice solid detective work. This info can be used in the summary of the subject

I've done the same thing with this blueprint that I have.
Until now, I had always thought that this blueprint was originally drawn as the traditional 1936 style frame and was re drawn to the new style.

But...After hours of pouring over the side notes, revisions and part numbers, (eg...looking for the part numbers of the old 36 style sidecar lugs) etc, it dawned on me that this drawing was first drawn on 7th of October 1936.

This would mean that it was the drawing of the new style frame. The introduction of the frame would come shortly afterwoods.

I was talking to Jerry Wieland last year at Davenport and he brought up this subject of the late 36's being in the later style frame.
He knew of a guy who had a late 1936 that was in the later style frame. They were pretty sure the bike was original and untouched..... but it was in the later style 37 frame which caused some doubt.

The bike was judged at a meet and pinged on points for the frame. The owner became less confident in the bike and subsiquently pulled the bike apart and replaced the frame with the traditional style 36 frame and sold the other frame off. I got the impession that this happened some years ago.

Jerry if you still know the guy, is it possible to get the VIN? This would help in the time line.

Getting closer.

Regards Steve

[Chris Haynes]

The 1939 parts book lists; Transmission support bracket 2263-36a as being used on Later 36 And early 37 61” bikes. This I think would imply that some late 1936 frames had the support bracket.

Pete Reeves 860

Pete,
2263-36a is a bracket that bolts to the transmission kicker cover studs then to the 5th mount on the frame. It is stated in the Service Bulletins that a few late '36 frames had the 5th mount on them. What is not said is are these late '36's with the 5th mount actually the '37 type frame.

[Steve Little]

Hi Chris.
Do you have a shop dope or factory release on when the first 1937 bike rolled off the line.


Regards Steve

[c.o.]

I found this ... http://books.google.ca/books?id=Yd4_...lehead&f=false it may be worth a read.

[Steve Little]

I better see if I can buy a copy of this book.

[Steve Little]

Interesting read.
I am not sure when this book "Greg Field Restoring your Knucklehead" was writen, but this subject of the 1936-37 frame seems to have been skirted around before, and is lightly touched on in the text.

Interesting point is that Harley have a 1936 bike in the later style frame on display in thier museum.
Anyone know the VIN of this bike?

It would stand to reason that they would have one of these on display, as it would be much rarer than the standard 1936

The trans outrigger/5th mount is drawn on the blueprint that I have, so it was introduced a lot earlier than Greg has posted in his book.

Chris. Have you got any shop dopes or factory literature that posts the start production date for 1937?

Regards Steve

[pete reeves]

Chris.
I know that this part was an interim bracket so that early transmission cases without the raised boss could be used on frames fitted with the 5th mount brackets.
I said the listing for part number 2263-35a in the parts book implies that some Late 1936 frames had the 5th mount. I did not say this listing implied that late 36 bikes had the later frame.

However the parts book listing for shims used for the one piece safety guard implies that the front down tubes and therefore the frame changed before the end of the 1936 model year.

Has anybody got a picture of a 1936 VIN number that is higher than 2645?

Pete Reeves 860.

[droptopford]

[QUOTE=
The bike was judged at a meet and pinged on points for the frame. The owner became less confident in the bike and subsiquently pulled the bike apart and replaced the frame with the traditional style 36 frame and sold the other frame off. I got the impession that this happened some years ago.
Regards Steve[/QUOTE]

I'm also one of the guys peeking over the fence at this thread. I know nothing about the subject besides what I've read. I read these posts to LEARN.

What a shame it would be if an unmolested Knuckle (of any age) had been dismantled and upgraded/altered because of bogus judging information.

[Steve Little]

I think a judge is only as good as the information that he learned along the way. And in saying that, the AMCA would award a judging position to who they consider the most knowledgable person they know, and who is willing/brave enough to take the position.

This particular subject, seems to be rare and we may only be talking about...."pure speculation here..50 to 100 bikes...maybe more, maybe less.

Pete. Can you look in your early parts book and see if it makes any refernce to part XE-801E or 111-35B

Regards Steve

[Chris Haynes]

Hi Chris.
Do you have a shop dope or factory release on when the first 1937 bike rolled off the line.


Regards Steve

No........

[Steve Little]

Hi. I am trying to find the old 1936 registry but cant find it.
Anyone know how to acces it.
Regards Steve

[Rubone]

Steve,
Just PM Sarge on this forum. It was his baby.
Robbie

[Chris Haynes]

I am sure Gerry can provide it.