1946 Frames

[starhub]

Can anybody tell me when in the production run they switched to the Bullneck frame? Palmer's book states that all '46 bikes had the Bullneck frame, but I've been told that early to mid year production had the 29 degree neck type.

Thanks, Jon

[Perry Ruiter]

When I did a 46 a few years ago the conclusion that I came to was that all 46s had the bullneck frame and it was the offset springer that came in part way through production. Early 46 would be bullneck frame and inline fork and handlebars. I don't know where the dividing line is between early and late. My motor number was low enough there was no doubt it was early ... Perry

[LJH]

They switched to the Bullneck frame, offset springer.
around 4200 to 4400

[Fiskis]

You mean that the 194x-1945 frame was in use up to around serial 4200? My exmex 46 has bullneck frame, thin fender braces and inline fork. Serial just under 1200.

[VPH-D]

I believe Palmer states that there are 3 different set ups for '46.
1st - inline fork with 28 degree frame - least common
2nd - inline fork with 30 degree frame - more common
3rd - offset fork with 30 degree frame - most common.

In his Military book, he changes the fork neck angles to these measurements.
VPH-D

[Fiskis]

Yes, and Bruce states that other than the degrees are correct in the earlier "How To" book. Although the subject has been discussed some times, I still am a bit confused about which serials approximately correspond to which frames.
Is it sure, that the first '46:s already had the bullneck and not the earlier 1941-45 frames? And all 1946 and part of 1947 they used the bullneck? Some say that the bullneck is not correct after 47FL4000, some say 6000 or 9000.
And how actually can you measure the degree on the head to distinguish a 1945 from a late 1947 frame, very similar in appearence? Especially on a complete bike?
Fiskis

[Kozy]

Fiskis,
Measure the differance in the neck angle between '45 and and '47 frames by placing your fingers on the bottom of the neck casting. Three fingers between the forkbearing cups and down tubes = '45, four fingers = '47 (less angle less distance like a right triangle).
Now to add to the VIN number discussion, does anyone know if the BT flatheads used the late '47 frame and if so at what VIN number was the change made?

[Fiskis]

I remember the finger trick Kozy, and have tried it, but I have not succeeded in convincing myself of any positive identification. The frame head design vary and cables etc interfere. Only a Panhead frame would take full four fingers. On the older I measured more or less like three and something, something being 3,5-3,75 fingers. There must be some more scientific method.

I'm pretty sure that the UL and the FL series changed frame design within a variation of a few hundred seria#:s. So it is for the members to "vote". I know a 47U37xx with bullneck frame.
Fiskis

[Kozy]

Fiskis,
I think Palmer's How to Restore manual lists some measurements, taken on the bottom of the neck casting, for the different neck angles. Checking with your fingers is just an estimation but works for me. (must have the right size fingers!) I guess I've never tried the trick with tanks mounted.

[Rub]

I don't know if there is any basis for this but I have never seen a 5 digit serial number on a U/UL. My '47 Fl is late production #120xx and is a late '47 frame. If Harley-Davidson did a second production run of '47 OHV models with the late frame did they ever build any more ULs or was there enough inventory to cover the limited demand? I personally doubt that there were ever any UL/late frame combos but that is just my opinion and not based on known examples. That said I believe a 47 UL should be in a bullneck frame. As far as early '46 I go along with Perry.
Robbie

[framemaker]

Hi
VPHD posted a message that Bruce Palmer's book states 3 different set up's used for 1946.
28 degree frame with inline fork. etc, etc........Is that a typo? Did you mean 29 degree neck?

What year is a 28 degree frame?

1936 -1940 25 degrees
1941- 1945-46 29 degrees
1946- 1947 30 degrees

[Fiskis]

Hi there under!

Bruce corrects the 29 degree neck angle to 28 for all the 1941-45 frames. According o this there should not exist any 29 degree BT frame. He states in the military book that the
1936-40 has 26 degrees
1941-45 has 28 degrees
1946-later has 30 degrees, 3 minutes.
The description of other variations of the frames during this period is according to the writer correct in his earlier "How to" book.
I'm glad to have only one three-and-something finger frame that I'm not sure of whether it is correct for the late '47 FL or not. Which is not so important as I do not have any other frame for that daily rider, which is not AMCA standard correct anyway. You mates have to build them from bare steel!
Fiskis

[framemaker]

Hi Fiskis.
I have not read the Military book but the 1936 to 1940 frames were designed and drawn to be manufactured at 25 degrees 0 minutes.
There is a possiblity that the frames may have moved around during the brazing stage or the following heat treatment, but my experience in frame manufacture makes it hard to believe they would move a whole degree. The frames I have had here through the years have been 25 degrees and a small variation of minutes over 25 degrees. I am only quoting the frames with nice straight tubes. Some have been well under 25 degrees.....but for obvious reason.
The HD factory, used to ream the bores for the neck bearing cup areas, after heat treatment and quenching, and I believe that a alingment check would have been done after that.
Regards Steve
ps nice picture of your 47

[framemaker]

I have a few original necks here and can try to give a visual reference on how to pick a neck by simply looking at it.
The neck on the left is a 1940 25 degree neck
middle neck is 1941- early 46
Right neck is a Bullneck "that has seen happier days...or should that be... Happy Days"
Even though the Bullneck has been hacked by a chopper jockey, you can see that the metal behind the bore "even behind the machined section" is substanstial compared to the 41-46 frame.
Bruce writes in the "How to" book that there is another fully machined off type of bullneck. I have not seen one of these but it would still have a big machined off area behind the bore. The cables, tanks and springer can make it hard to measure but I can identify a neck by looking at it.
Regards Steve

[framemaker]

Hope this works