Frame Restoration

[Steve Little]

Perhaps I should rephrase my question: Is there such a thing as a Service manual for 1936-1940

[Steve Little]

Extra holding fixture

Applogies for the delay. I have decided to manufacture a couple of extra mounting fixtures for these springers, and I also took this time to send a enquiring email to a trusted source of information. Thanks for the info Bill

My question was:
The workshop/service manual that I have, offers no method of straightening a springer, and in fact has a precautionary note, suggesting that I should send my damaged springer to a shop with the correct equipment.
The information listed in my Harley Davidson workshop manual is for checking measurements of springer alignment only.
A quote from Harley workshop/service manual as follows:
(This method of checking fork alignment is recommended only in connection with emergency repair. Except in emergency, fork straightening and aligning should be referred to a shop where any needed straightening equipment and more accurate aligning gauges are available)

This information intimates that there are some kind of gauges and straightening equipment.
Can you tell me if HD had some kind of written information to go with this tooling?.
Perhaps these springers where straightened with special mandrels and jigs that fitted on the standard Harley Davidson frame straightening table.

Does anyone have the original booklet that was supplied with the original Harley Davidson straightening table?

[koanes]

Steve, I wonder if the early forks used the same stem center line offset as the VL fork. I measured the best looking fork I have for my early projects, a late 38 fork, and came up with the same forward offset as the VL forks. The stem center line to rocker stud hole line is 15/32". I checked out a couple of 36-early 37 forks and they were in the neighborhood, but both had a little trouble in their life, so they were a little crookedy. Years ago I had my 39 fork "straightened" to a point where the stem hole center and stud center met with no offset. Whoops.

[Steve Little]

Howdy Kyle. Thanks for the input. I will eventually make the time, and pull the foreword sweep springer off my 37 and check it in this jig as well. When I do, I will post the findings here to help make an evaluation, but I think you may be right.

[ricmoran]

Steve there was no shop manual produced for the period 36 - 40. There was a riders guide which is an owners how to of MC operation. My guess is that back in the day if the front end was damaged, they would salvage what they could that was usable and then order replacement parts or a complete new front end.

Bending chrome molly is like trying to herd cats. I'd be thinking about the stress and how to relieve that when the material is bent, it would seem otherwise the memory of the bend would naturally re-occur over time once the bending pressure has been released.

One question I meant to ask earlier, did you design and build your frame jig for frame work?

[Steve Little]

Hi Ric. Thanks for you'r input.*
Back in the 80,s I was a foreman in a large steel fabrication shop. We fabricated steel beams and plate girders for large steel building projects, (power stations, long bridge beams etc, etc).*
I,d had enough of that industry by the late 80,s and started planning my next career move. I saw an opportunity here in Australia for a dedicated, vintage Harley frame restorer, and designed the jig on paper. I roughly knew how I wanted to hold the frame to work on it and I tackled the job with the experience born from my Trade.
I found a off cut from the end of a 310 UC columb ( a thick flange universal columb) and had it surface ground and then sent it through the tape controlled drill at the factory (this was a fancy bit of German engineering back then) and it drilled and taped the holes along the beam.
I sat the beam on a couple of pieces of 600 beam to make it a comfortable, sturdy, working height.
All the frame holding fixtures where built out of necessity, and as needed.*
The fixtures that bolt to the beam have been revamped and redesigned quite a few times over the years. This was done for a number of reasons, sometimes because of warpage due to the continued use of high temperature heat during brazing, sometimes due to a better design being realized from usage.
For example, my front engine mount fixture has had 3 incarnations over the years, and the axle carrier fixture has had 2, etc and I believe we have settled on the best, solid, and most usable fixture, about 8years ago
Sometimes a change was due to a better design being realized, but to be honest, mostly because of a head strong tool room machinist that works for me.
*My Trade qualifications are biolermaker/welder and structual steel. Standard *working tolerance in my Trade is half a millimeter.*
Toolroom tolerance over 6 foot is 0.000-0.003.... No comparison really!
Between my ideas of operation, and his exceptional machining capability and experience in making jigs that guaranteed high quality repeatability, we came up with a jig that guaranteed exact fitment every time.
It took all the thinking out of the work, and is easy to use.*
I am not sure if you realize that we manufacture jigs and sell them.*
We have sold a jig to a client from the US (Craig Clack from Tennessee) and also (Oceanbeetle manufacturing from Japan).
A *3rd company in Germany, *had ordered a jig which is nearly complete, but they have become victims of the world economic downturn, so there is an opportunity for an enterprising European *business.*
Craig Clack, and also, the consortium from Japan, have traveled here to Australia at different times to learn the correct techniques on how to manufacture frames and also how to restore frames correctly.*
Craig is now into full production and has just informed me he has completed a batch of frame restorations for customers and is now 16 frames into a 30 frame production run.
Oceanbeetle manufacturing in Japan, is still in setup mode, but expect to start soon.
That's probably a longer answer than you expected.*
I,m still working on my short answer skills.

[ricmoran]

Fantastic Steve and your reply was not too long.

Impressive history and experience you have and it shows in what you do in the images.

If I were as accomplished at this as you are, I would do exactly the same. Your in a business and any chance to let folks know what it is all about is excellent & smart marketing.

One Oahu, the are 2 shops who build frames, side by side. These are just down the street from me.

I stopped to discuss needed frame work at both shops.

Their answers were very telling as they answered with body language. Crossed arms, a step back and no answer. Discussed with them proper OEM frame repair and they advised we only build custom frames, nothing like what you need. I asked about their jigs and they advised they built them as well. I have to believe though they did not go to the extent you did and that extent reflects in what happens at the close of work in restoration.....correctness of frame geometry for trueness when run on the road as well as providing clients with the most important part of this, a safe frame that a client needs not worry about having issues with.

Not looking forward to boxing up the frame I have for it's overseas journey to the mainland US, as at this point there is no other option.

Purchasing a jig would be a wise investment, but only if I were in a market where there is demand for services as you perform...this all states to me another good reason to relocate!

Thanks for your reply.

[Steve Little]

[QUOTE=ricmoran;130752]

Not looking forward to boxing up the frame I have for it's overseas journey to the mainland US, as at this point there is no other option.

Hi Ric.
I flew to Hawaii 2 years ago to visit a friend on Kaui ( not sure if that is spelled correctly) and it took 6 hours flying to get there. It generally takes 15 hours to fly direct to LAX from here. Does that mean you are closer to me than mainland US?

[Steve Little]

Hi. Apologies for the delay.
I was not satisfied with the initial design of the spindle fixture.
My first design did not hold the neck spindle on a positive, centreline, alignment with the jig, and instead, allowed the springer to self align.
I changed the design of the fixture to hold the spindle on the centreline of the jig (effectively, like it would be held in the motorcycle frame) and I am happier with this higher level of thinking.
This design looks to be robust enough to withstand the rigors of straightening the spears of the springer.
If it is not, maybe I can fit a maginfied lense in each end, and try to accelerate some light particles.
On second thought, maybe not. My shed might implode and leave me standing there with a puzzled look on my smoke stained face, and a few wisps of smoke rising from my hair.

[Steve Little]

Hey Kyle. When I had a look through my springers I realised that this has the same mis-treatment as yours. This was a "foreward sweep" springer (1936-1940) that has had the foreward sweep taken out of it.
The 1936-1940 springers can be identified by the keyway that is machined into the bottom of the steering dampner hole "as seen on the left hand side of the hole".
I might get this springer blasted before working on it, as I will have to use heat on the spears to help in the re-forming of the foreward sweep.
I think that quite a few of these foreward sweep springers have been straightened to the 41-46 workshop manual description.
The piece of french chalk sitting on the spear of the springer, shows where the alteration was made. There is a slight bump in the spear at this point.

[ricmoran]

[QUOTE=Steve Little;130773]

Not looking forward to boxing up the frame I have for it's overseas journey to the mainland US, as at this point there is no other option.

Hi Ric.
I flew to Hawaii 2 years ago to visit a friend on Kaui ( not sure if that is spelled correctly) and it took 6 hours flying to get there. It generally takes 15 hours to fly direct to LAX from here. Does that mean you are closer to me than mainland US?

Steve, we did a tour of the east coast of Australia back in 2005. Flew Hawaiian Air and it took 11 hours to get to Sydney. Form Honolulu to Los Angeles is a 5.5 to 6 hour flight depending on headwinds. We are about 2,600 miles from LA where Sydney is just over 5,000 miles so it is just about twice the distance.

[Steve Little]

Thanks for clearing that up Ric.
When I fly to LA I try to resist looking at the flight path screen for as long as I can.
Usually I watch a movie, do a couple of laps around the craft, watch another movie, couple more laps, sleep, listen to music then...I gotta look at the flight path Woohoo!! we are past Hawaii. I thought it was 6 hrs but I just checked the Qantas flight time for Syd to Hon....9 hours 45 minutes
(Flew Hawaiian Air and it took 11 hours to get to Sydney) Qantas must fly faster in those new A380's or Hawaiian air must be "takin it easy bro".

[Steve Little]

I have been a little bit hesitant on how to go about straightening these spears.
I have only done a small amount of work with Chrome molybdenum about 6 or 7 years ago and I didn’t enjoy it very much.
This over head shot of the left leg shows that it has a bow in the centre.
Straighten 36-40 springer 001.JPG
I decided to start by straightening this spear first.
I placed a rule on the inside of the spear to determine where the bend starts and ends.
And marked couple of lines to help during the setup
Straighten 36-40 springer 005.JPG
My first go at pressing the spear failed. I used high density rubber, thinking that it would be strong enough to push the tube but not dent it. Wrong. Not enough body in the rubber.
Straighten 36-40 springer 008.JPG
Hunted around the workshop looking for some nylon but could not locate it so down the Super market and bought a $5 2 pack speacial bread board and cut it to the size I wanted.
Now we are cooking

[Steve Little]

The bow came out pretty well and the measurement HD has listed is 3.703".
Although the vernia readout has a bit of flash reflection it reads 3.701.
I'm thinking I will leave it at that for the moment and move over to the other leg
Straighten 36-40 springer 011.JPG

When I set the vernia to the HD measurement of 3.307" and put it on the right side, you can see how much the spear has to be pressed toward the centre line to come into alignment

[Steve Little]

The right side spear is just short of 1/4" out of correct alingment.
I have no idea how far I have to press this spear, to allow for spring in the metal and get a change in measurement.
I started by pressing a 1/4" past the measurement I wanted. Thats about 1/2" of spear movement. I can tell you I was nervouse!!!

Nope! It didn't move a jot.
It just followed the ram home like a dull eyed cow, when I backed the ram off.