Frame Restoration

[mdimages]

I just want to say that this is the one reason I joined this forum. This writeup I found due to doing surgery on my knuckle frame. I know this is an old thread but you did a great job with this, and I will be using it as a reference with my build. Thank you for all of your time and the people involved.
Matt

[harleytoprock]

Steve, Wishing you a speedy recovery! Feel Better.

[duffeycycles]

I feel for you Steve I've had the tick ittis twice,it takes the fun out of everything.Doctors are quacks when it comes to diagnosis of tick bites...pretty simple if have been bit and you start crapping bright green with very high fever,heart racing 200mph,side with bite going dead..........let's see ,treat you for a heart condition ,put you on treadmill spread it some more.Anything but give you antibiotics -Quack like a duck..enjoy your retirement and thanx for the info on frame ID and repair

[Steve Little]

I agree with HTR Steve, and thank you for sharing your knowledge, and experience. In the past, a lot of talented people have kept their know-how a secret and that is how the art gets lost. I believe you are a true enthusiast because you share, and apply what you know with people who appreciate it. As for the value of your repair; good, genuine rigid forks are quite expensive now so the repair is very important, and a good value for us welding impared enthusiasts.

Quote from Eric
(I agree with HTR Steve, and thank you for sharing your knowledge, and experience. In the past, a lot of talented people have kept their know-how a secret and that is how the art gets lost.)

Thanks to all, for taking the time to post you'r appreciation of my efforts, and also to the people who emailed me directly.*
I,m laid up with this confounded Ross River fever at the moment.
One thing that I took for granted all my life, but now cherish when it comes around, is energy.*

I never took on an apprentice to pass my trade on to.*
But I can placate myself, knowing that I have passed most of my frame experience to Craig at Tennessee Frames and the guys at Oceanbeetle in Japan.*
Both groups have traveled over here to Australia and have been taught the correct methods in frame manufacture and frame restoration, and both groups purchased a new jig from me.
Oceanbeetle are still setting up, but hope to be in operation in the near future.
Craig is now operational in Tennessee. He spent a long time building a purpose made building to house his new venture in. *He recently completed a batch of frame restorations, and*is now in the middle of a production run of new frames, using our fully machined castings and pre bent tubes.

My frame manufacture knowledge is also in their hands now, *so there doesn't *need to be any fear of the information being lost when I retire shortly.

Which brings me to the important question...Anybody with vim and vigor interested in a world wide based business?
See email contact below.
Regards Steve

[c.o.]

I could comment but it would be probably just be a scrambled version of what Eric said. Very well done Steve and thanks again for sharing this kind of work with us.

[exeric]

I agree with HTR Steve, and thank you for sharing your knowledge, and experience. In the past, a lot of talented people have kept their know-how a secret and that is how the art gets lost. I believe you are a true enthusiast because you share, and apply what you know with people who appreciate it. As for the value of your repair; good, genuine rigid forks are quite expensive now so the repair is very important, and a good value for us welding impared enthusiasts.

[harleytoprock]

Steve, Bravo! Excellent Job! I would feel extremely confident riding on that fork. Thanks for sharing. HTR

[Peter Cooke]

For me $540 is money well spent when you consider 2 things;
1. The endless possibilites of what might happen should a cracked fork leg let go at 60mph and
2. Early springer front ends sell for way more than that on Ebay and there's no garuntee that they are not cracked and require further work. At least your customer now knows what he's got and can ride with peace of mind.
HD's policy was fine 70 years ago when there was plenty of spares available. It's not really relevant now.
If guys like you don't do what you do then less and less old bikes get back on the road.

Keep up the good work!

[Steve Little]

Thanks for the encouragement Eric.

Stress relieving process is done.
It’s been so long since I last used this thermometer that it took me 15 minutes to find it. I am suprised the battery still had charge.
I brought the weld area up around 1100F. The whole area was dull red colour.
I put the torch down for a second and tried to take a picture of redness of the steel when it was up on temperature. But out of habit, I had turned the camera off. By the time I had turned it back on, and changed the setting to low quality for the forum limit, some of the redness was already dissipating.

My process as follows: I got it back to around 1100 and held it there for a few minutes. Then backed the heating tip away from the job for a bit, and then allowed it to air cool.
How’d I do Toprock??
.
The actual time to repair this rear leg has been a bit over 6 hours.
My shop rate is $90 an hour.
I sporadically visit eBay and haven’t bought any bike parts for about 12 months.
I haven’t been to Davenport for 2 years, so I feel out of touch on prices.
Maybe HD’s policy on these legs is still relevant.
What’s the consensus out there from you readers?

[Steve Little]

Thanks Robbie.
Someone spent a long time with the hacksaw on that project.

In your picture I can see that the inner channels are clear, and look to have their backs brazed to the stem.

Like the other components of the stem crown, these channels have been forged specifically for this job.
Stem crown chanel 001.JPG

After fossicking around on the net I found the following in the Lincoln Questions and Answers section. As follows:
Q. Do I need to heat treat (stress relieve) 4130 after welding?

A. Thin wall tubing normally does not require stress relief. For parts thicker than .120", stress-relieving is recommended and 1,100ºF is the optimum temperature for tubing applications. An Oxy/Acetylene torch with neutral flame can be used. It should be oscillated to avoid hot spots.

Thanks for the prompt Toprock.
I will have to be careful during the heat treatment process, as braze also melts at 1.100F. The heat will be put into an area that is very close to where the leg is brazed into the stem crown.

On a side note , I took a picture from the top of the handlebar mount area of the leg. The pin can be seen in the spring crown.
I have been asked quite a few times over the years if Harley pinned the forgings to the tubes before brazing. I know that pinning was done on W series frames but I have never found a pin in any of the big twin frames (1937 and up) that I have worked on.

[Rubone]

This is the stem picture Steve, not sure if it tells you anything.
Robbie

[exeric]

You're doing a beautiful job Steve. At first I was thinking you were going to disassemble the fork to insert a reinforcement. That would have been quite a trick. Obviously you are a very talented welder and have taken all the right steps to make a good repair. I think it was Chris Haynes who posted a picture of a fork crown that had been cut and sectioned to show the insides.

[Steve Little]

As I wrote before, a clean surface in an area like this does not gaurentee a good weld.
As I was laying the first run, it started well, but pretty quickly the flame turned from white to Green. This was the braze material sucking in from behind the chanel, and making its way into the weld. I had to grind it out and do it again. Second time was better. I then contoured the weld with the burr.
I should also mention that the fumes from this type of welding are toxic and not for humans to breath. More so, when there are traces of braze in the weld area.
Use some type of approved face mask to stop the fumes getting in you. They are linking this type of toxisity to Alziemers and other disorders.
I feel confident that this is the reason my immune system was weakened and allowed a mosquito bite to give me Ross River virus.
I have had Ross river for 6 years and it is very similar to West Nile (for those of you in the States) or Chronic Fatigue syndrome.
For the sake of a couple of minutes fitting a mask or the small inconvenience of driving to the hardware store to get one....figure it out...20 minutes or 6 years.

Now that the welding is complete, I will have a fosick around the net for this stress relieving issue that toprock has suggested.

[Steve Little]

I had a bit a feel around inside this spacer with a bit of wire and it feels like it is made of two chanel sections facing each other with a gap of about 3/16” or ¼” between the two.
The end of this chanel section must have had the flanges cut away so that it could be wrapped around the leg.
Robbie, was it you who posted a picture of a sectioned spinger crown a while back?
If so, does it show this area?

[Steve Little]

Next item on the agenda was the cracked spacer in the stem crown.
Springer weld repair 006.JPG
Firstly, I had to remove all brass from the area.
I did this with the 2 burrs sitting beside the die grinder. Then used a flap wheel to finish it off.
Then I had to find the bottom of this crack. I decided to use the pointy tip burr to open the crack right up.
I decided on an open style of weld prep because it is such a narrow section and I want to be sure to get a good weld in.
I think this section cracked after the leg broke. Due the flexing of the unsupported lower leg

Before I had repaired the leg, I could grab the bottom of the leg and move it about, quite easily.
After welding the leg, I haven’t a hope in hell of moving it. The spring crown looks spindly, but the combination of all the components welded together gives a nice rigid effect to the leg.