What do I have?

[Wingnut234]

Hi all - just getting into this amazing world of vintage bikes. I have a barn find that I picked up for next to nothing. This is what I think I have - would love your expert opinions on what I do have.

What I know - '41 FL motor and frame. What I think - '46 or '47 rear fender and tank. '55? Duoglide Front End, Elvis seat, and saddlebags.

I'd like to put it back to a springer front end as well as put the suicide shifter back. I can't tell how it will attach to the tank though...

Any and all help, comments, suggestions are much appreciated!

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[Sargehere]

Welcome to the club, Wingnut! Glad to have you here!
You pretty much know already what you have. It's a mongrel of many different years, maybe built that way, or it may be a gradually modified '47 as parts were changed over its life. Can't tell from here.

However, Number One: there's no such thing as a "suicide shifter!" Not in this crowd, anyway. That's an old misnomer. Stock on a 1947, and up through '51, was the "hand shift, foot clutch" system of shifting. Almost all Harleys shifted that way until the "ratchet top" footshift mechanism with "mousetrap" clutch booster was introduced on Big Twins like yours, new for 1952.

The original configuration was "rocker clutch," for the foot clutch, and once you put your left heel down, toe up on the rocking clutch, it stretched an over-center spring, and it would stay that way. Sitting at a red light, or just stopped in gear, you could take your foot off the pedal and place it on the ground to hold you up, take your hands off the handlebar to put on your gloves, stand up and get off the bike or anything, and the clutch would remain disengaged, motor running.

"Suicide" came into the vocabulary when owners just had to fiddle with the mechanism, by either taking off the over-center spring (some fools called it the "sissy spring") or modified the pedal itself to work like a car clutch: push it out to change gears, let it go and it sprung back. THAT is popularly called a "suicide clutch." If you weren't in neutral before taking your foot off, you couldn't. You couldn't hold yourself up with your left foot when stopped unless you'd already found neutral.

On the gear shifter, the left tanks for 1947 have indents and lugs for the gearshifter gate and a pivot for the lever built on the bottom below the gate. Unless there are indents bondoed-over on your left tank ( a possibility!) for the inset shift gate shown in this photo of the red bike, below, you need entirely different tanks. The modifications also would have included hack-sawing off the triangular bracket for the shift lever pivot, pretty much ruining the tanks, unless you're a cracker jack with metal and a torch!

A stop gap could be a post-1964 under-tank clamp-on gearshift lever mechanism, which doesn't touch those 52-to-64 tanks like yours, but you don't want that. For restoration to 1947-like specs, you need the '47-era tanks with indents for the shifter gate and a pivot at the bottom for the lever. Hope this helps! And welcome to the asylum.

This is a photo of a '49, with a Panhead engine, but the shift and clutch mechanism is exactly like yours was originally:

EDIT: Seems I started off misreading your "41" as "47," Wingnut. My apologies, but everything I said applies to the almost-identical 1941. And short left case ribs are correct for 1941.

[Wingnut234]

What do I have?

Thanks, Sarge! What was the mechanism pre '47. I believe all the mechanisms are in place to put the rocker clutch back. Except for the indents on the tank. But everything I've seen indicates the tank is from a '45 or '47 except the spot to attach the shifter guide. I believe what's shown in this pic shows where the hand clutch attaches...

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[Sargehere]

I just edited my comments on the tank in my post #2, Wingnut. Yes, your photo pretty much proves that you have the right tanks. Perhaps you have a 1947 Knuckle which was "updated" through the '50s by its owner to keep it looking modern.

The indentations for the shifter gate must have just been filled with bondo. You can fix that, and bolt back on the right parts. You have what amounts to the OEM "footshift conversion kit" assembled to your '47. It includes the "ratchet top" which is the whole top of your transmission. You'll need a "jockey top," which has just a lever that moves between stops on the drum inside to select the gears. It also includes everything that bolts on where your left footboard mounts: the foot shift lever, footboard mount/lever pivot bracket & chrome cover. That's all replaced by the rocker clutch mechanism shown in my photo. Don't settle for V-twin chrome repop parts in that department, either! They're well known 2B junk! Find and OEM rocker clutch mechanism.

The mousetrap clutch booster and cable and handlebar lever are all also part of the conversion kit you have on that bike. That, in itself is valuable trading material as you hunt the hand shift-foot clutch parts, so hang on to it all. That kit was sold by Harley dealers in a box with a "dash-52" part number for years after the intro of the footshift bikes in 1952, containing all the nit-pickin' parts to convert your hand-shift bike to the "new" configuration. It is even illustrated in a Harley manual some where. Perhaps Rub or someone will put up a pic of it, to guide you in what you have to take off.

Speaking of manuals, be sure to get some for your bike. Everything is available in reprint pretty inexpensively: you need the 1940-47 Knucklehead & UL Service Manual, and I recommend the 1949 Spare Parts catalog (parts were kept in stock for ten years, so all parts for your '47 are illustrated in that) Every correct part for your '47 is illustrated in the parts catalog in "blow-up" assembly drawings, showing exactly what each part is, and where it goes! For the '49 Spare Parts, try vendor "Watertowngirl" on Ebay. I'm pretty sure she has it, for about $25. Hope this helps!

[Jerry Wieland]

I would guess the tanks are pre 47 with 47 emblems. Catseye dashes do not fit cleanly on later tanks with out a bunch of work. The motor is definitely earlier as it has the short ribbed cases and is probably 41. I would guess by the way the front end sits in comparasion to the frame that it is a later 30 degree frame.

Looks like a parts bike but a very neat one.

Jerry

[Jerry Wieland]

I've looked over the bike pictures somemore and I might take back my claim that the frame is later. The motor has nothing that I could see to be non 1941. Still has the banjo fittings on the overhead oil lines. Transmission has what appears to be right kicker cover. The cylinders are FL knucklehead. This bike could basically be a 41 in costume. Later front end, taillight, speedo, bags.

Jerry

[Rooster]

The fork tins are not '55. Horizontal stripes are 1949-54. If the script "Hydra Glide" is NOT stamped on top, then the tins are '49.
More than likely the front end is '50-'54. But hard to say if the fork tins are original to the rest of the front end....
Front fender is obviously later-- Duo-Glide first appeared in '58.

[Sargehere]

Wingnut:
I'm glad that better eyes than mine have jumped in here with the rising of the sun in the East. Jerry W, is right, the motor's ribs in the shape of a "Vee" on the left side of the engine grew longer in 1941, to increase the strength of the engine cases, until they extended up, almost to the bases of the the cylinders, along with his other observations.

As Rooster noted, of course, the entire fork may be about a decade (+ or -) newer than the '40s bike. No Knuckleheads came with hydraulic forks like those. There are tell-tales to nail down the year of the frame pretty closely, but it would take a close inspection. A clear close-up photo of the engine number, right there in that "Vee" on the left side might tell volumes, or might not. If it starts with "47" on those cases, it might be someone's long-ago restamp. No telling without a photo.

It does look like someone may have taken a lot of pride, once, to keep his old Knuckle looking and handling like the "latest models." Depending on when it was done, the filling of the shift gate recesses on the left tank might have been with plastic "Bondo," (a trade name) or lead if done long ago. Either way, it should be removable, but lead might involve a lot of heat.

Here is the other "must have" book for any serious student of your model of Harley-Davidson:
http://www.amazon.com/Restore-Harley.../dp/0879389346

And, "Get um while they're hot!" is all I can say. It's been announced that this is a "limited printing," a few months ago. The last time the book went out-of-print, the going price for a copy rose to over $200 !

How To Restore Your Harley-Davidson (1994), by Bruce Palmer III, is generally regarded as "the bible" of the Harley-Davidsons it covers, from 1937 to 1964. It includes what-fits specific models, and explains about all of the changes and equipment, year-by-year. I'm confident that you're going to love the experience you're just undertaking!

[Rubone]

But everything I've seen indicates the tank is from a '45 or '47 except the spot to attach the shifter guide.

As Jerry W said your tanks appear earlier with the late emblem applied. It also makes it much easier to revert to hand shift as only the bolt holes will be filled, there is no indentation on pre-'47 tanks, the shifter gate matches the tank contour. You wouldn't even have to repaint them unless you decided to change the emblem for the correct '41 types with trim.
Robbie

[Jerry Wieland]

I would think long and hard about 'fixing' this motorcycle by trying to get it back to what it once was. It has such wonderful patina. My thought would be to ride it like it is and not to tear into it deeply but slowly change one thing at a time until it is what you want. It looks like a great rider as is.

Jerry

[Wingnut234]

Thanks everybody. The bike was originally bought in the '60's by a friend of the family. To his knowledge he was the 2nd, maybe 3rd owner. In the 70's, he gave the bike to his brother. His brother parked it in a barn in '75 until I picked it up in December. I probably could have put oil and gas in it, and rode it. But to be safe, I went ahead and stripped it clean. The bike is 100% apart, and I've broken the motor down - minus needing some cleaning, it's in excellent shape.

The motor is in the process of being bead blasted / cleaned. Then it's new gaskets and rings and reassemble. The motor is stamped 41FL3565. My goal is to restore it as close as possible to '41. If it's a little bit hybrid, I'm OK with it - but I really want the springer front end back, as well as the jockey shifter.

Sarge, I have the book you mentioned which has really turned out to be a "bible". What I'd love to find at this point, is an OEM front end - I've seen there are several versions out there - any suggestions on which length will work best? I'm going to be making the trip from Northern VA to the Cycle Den in PA - Rick says he has the jockey shift assembly that I need. If any of you know of a good source to find a front end, please share. I'm ready to get this beauty re-painted, assembled, and take her for a ride on the backroads of VA!

Would love your opinion on this too - Paint the frame, or Powder coat - Pros / Cons - what do you think?

You can zoom in and see the motor stamp. Here's a better pic of the frame stripped (almost 100% - since this pic - the frame is naked and ready to be cleaned, and painted / maybe powder coated.

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[Hollywood]

speechless...

[Wingnut234]

What are you speechless about? I'm confused by your comment...

[Sargehere]

Excellent photo! That number is cool. As in, perfectly good! You have the "short ribs" case, correct for 1941, and the stamping is all the right shapes for the numbers. On the bottom you'll have two identical strings of numbers, line bore numbers; both probably start with "41-," and indicate a cherry motor. dig the bondo/lead out of the holes for the shifter gate in those tanks for the two screws and you can replace the tank shifting mechanism.

Stock Springers go for two grand, anymore, and that's without the brake parts, ride control or anything. If you run across an 'early' one with the grease fittings inside, under the headlight, i'll give you the 41 springer on my '37. Just if you find an early one first, that is. You just want to stay away from the "Offset" mid-46 and later. Of course, you need the 1-inch Big Twin neck.

I don't believe in powder coating, personally. It chips easily, and is a PITA. Just paint it.

[tomcat1]

My goal is to restore it as close as possible to '41.

If your not going to use the rear fender, And it is truly a 47 fender. I would be interested in it.