45 Flathead Belly Numbers

[Tommo]

I actually viewed those records when I was at the factory in 1998 and from them was able to identify one of my bikes as being an actual HD factory prototype. That got them going I can tell you.
When I tried to access them via a contact at a later date someone had made sure that Joe Blow would no longer have access and that the person who showed me them in the first place was way out of line.
The records I saw contained a limited ammount of info but what was there was of great interest.

[exeric]

This is very interesting stuff. Just to get the opinions of the members; do you think it would be a good idea if this information was more accessable or should it be top secret. I can see the potential for criminal mischief but also the tremendous benefit it would be to restoration. Just curious.

[Paps]

I say release the information. Altering numbers without judicial authorization isn't legal anyway, so why not make altering line bore numbers as un legal ? Those too could be documented in sink with vin numbers. If one has cases replaced.....document the new stamping and the new line bore numbers as one unit. What is the big deal about not doing this ?

[Chris Haynes]

This is very interesting stuff. Just to get the opinions of the members; do you think it would be a good idea if this information was more accessable or should it be top secret. I can see the potential for criminal mischief but also the tremendous benefit it would be to restoration. Just curious.

How can the relationship between line bore numbers and serial numbers be of benefit to a restoration?

[exeric]

Maybe not a benefit as much as a revelation.

[bmh]

How can the relationship between line bore numbers and serial numbers be of benefit to a restoration?

One word, Authentication.

From the handbook:
All motorcycles that are 35 years old or older
that are mass produced with their own
manufacture drive train (reproduction
motors are not allowed) are eligible for
judging at AMCA national meets. A
motorcycle registered in the proper class is
judged with other motorcycles in the same
class. All motorcycles are given 100 points
at the start of judging. Judges deduct points
according to accepted AMCA standards.

So what is the definition of a "reproduction motor"? would anything not originally produced by the factory for actual production be a re-production? I think so. Of course I agree that unlimited access to this list by any and all would also result in much better forgeries. I tried several times to simply get verification that my motors were authentic matching number units and did not have altered serials. This only requires a simply yes or no answer as I have already provided the number set in question. This would also clear up those funny looking numbers that were legit dealer replacements, would it not? So why all the top secret, eyes only BS?

[Chris Haynes]

So why all the top secret, eyes only BS?[/QUOTE]

If you can't understand by reading the previous posts I will never be able to explain it to you.

[Ohio-Rider]

Chris, I resepect your knowledge on alot of things man, but this one just doesn't seem to be going your way. Last week a detective from my local police department contacted the service depatrment as you said was needed, and was told that no such records exsisted. If any members have a friend in law enforcement I would ask that you do the same and report back.

And I do agree that "IF" such a list exsists, that our club would benifit greatly from it. Without absolute proof how can any of us know we own the real McCoy. These machines can cost a boo coo amount of money and time to put tohether. It would be nice to know from the begining that we aren't wasting our money and time on a fraudulent machine. -Steve

[rwm]

in my humble opion when it becomes profitable the list will be released.curently there is no benefit to the moco.a few more years of bad sales and you may see a list

[Paps]

A title is a vehicular name for a deed. Deeds are public record.

[rwm]

deeds are public record after you pay to see them

[Tommo]

I think some perspective needs to be put on this issue,
I know the records existed in 1998 because I saw them but how did I see them, I saw them because somebody employed by HD was researching a bike for me and had found the data required in these books and he decided to show me the evidence in the flesh.
For this he got in a certain ammount of trouble at a later date when I tried to access the records again and said that so in so had shown them to me in 1998.
These records are the property of the HD Motor Co and surely how they use them is their business. If I was to tell you how you were going to use your motorcycle or how you were going to restore it or whatever else you could think of you would rightly tell me to go take a running jump as it is none of my business. I don't know why HD is reluctant to allow access to these records but they must have a reason and thats their business

[bmh]

If you can't understand by reading the previous posts I will never be able to explain it to you.

Please try, as I said it is a question that requires a simple yes or no answer. Either yes the case half numbers and the VIN are a match or no they are not. No one outside the Company ever need see the list. If you can't provide both of these numbers then there should be no question that the parts you are holding are not legit. Sorry guys but not every bike can be a survivor. While I have no doubt that you and Tommo have seen this info I also absolutely know neither dealers nor State police have access to get that simple yes or no answer, let alone little old me. If it's a money thing, I'd pay a fee. I'm sure lots of other enthusiasts would too. I doubt the GM historical division researches your vehicle and sends out all that info for free. I don't get the problem, though I have a suspicion that perhaps the factory's record keeping wasn't what it should've been. From what I hear their restoration dept. sure isn't.

[Chris Haynes]

I have never seen a case where the line bore number matched the serial number.

[Tommo]

I go with Chris on that one as I have never seen an engine number that goes anywhere near matching a belly number