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I was thumbing through the Spring 1995 issue of The Antique Motorcycle this morning and found this picture of Andy Anderson with a Warwick taken at the Hebron meet. It was a very small picture and this is the best I could do with it. Does anybody have any info on the Warwick? So far I've found that they were built in Springfield, Mass with a 1903 year model only. It also got me to wondering how many manufacturers used the Indian style camelback gas tank. Now that I've seen this Warwick I can include it's style with early Thor's, Ramblers, and of course Indian. Was the tank another item farmed out by Indian to a third party and was available to other paying customers as well? How many bikes used it???
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Cory Othen
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Indian type MC
During the Creation research I brushed up against the whole early Indian thing and its many imitators. Seems like there were French motorcycles before the Indian with that same configuration: cylinder in-line with seatpost, bicycle-frame, and tank over rear fender, lightweight, etc. We owe a lot to the French.
As I remember, the Warwick was a close copy while some of the others were looser copies. (Thor is a whole other can of worms.) My conclusion was that Indian was early, good handling, reliable, and produced and distributed widely. For awhile the rest of the industry basically followed the Indian design as the proper way a practical modern motorcycle was supposed to look. That was in 1902-03-04. After that a different style increasingly superceded the Indian type, which in the years 1905-06-07-08 became increasingly obsolete altho Indian stubbornly stuck with it.
That early period is real interesting. Somewhere around here I have a 1903 Model Review I'll try to dig out. Don't know who Indian was making stuff for, but probably anything for anybody with cash money or good credit, don't you think? -
Yes it is all very interesting. I guess that the earliest of publications of the time are probably the only true means to find answers this many years later. I most definitely think that there are possibilities that manufactured parts could have been sold to other companies to bring in a little more revenue for Indian in it's infant days. I think it would be quite interesting to have a look at an early Indian vs. Clone bike and figure out the differences. I wonder how often this Warwick surfaces at the eastern meets??Originally posted by HarleyCreation View Post
Thanks for the response Herb, it's good to have a historian around.Cory Othen
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Indian Type MCs (1901 & 1905)
I found both a 1901 and 1905 Model Review. Thought I had a 1903, but maybe not.
Predictably, the 1901 bikes are rather primitive, some bizarre, with French influence all over the place. Indian does not show at all. The closest to that type bike is the Hafelfinger: motor inline with seatpost, tank over rear wheel, & diamond bicycle frame. But it's only a crude line-drawing, and shows an incomplete bike at that.
By 1905 Indian is of course present with several copies of varying build closeness. The already mentioned Warwick was by then extinct, but there were plenty to take its place, including the Thor (Aurora), the Manson, the America, the Moto-Racycle (Miami), the Thor-Bred (Light), the Rambler (Pope), and the Thouroughbred (R-S).
All of these were very Indian-like in general appearance. The rest of the field (and there were several) were a variety of diamond, loop, cradle, and other frames styles but didn't follow the distinctive Indian pattern.
H-D shows up as the famous "line drawing," which some have interpreted as a racer due to the low handlebar, etc.Comment
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I have a copy of the '02 Indian brochure and I think it was the first time the motorcycle appeared in Indian's advertising literature. It's really wild how things unfolded in that era. I mean really could Oscar Hedstrom in a roundabout way be credited for the design of Thor and all the other clones? I've got to start collecting the early periodicals.
Here's an old Warwick bicycle advert..........Cory Othen
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Somewhere I have a Warwick motorcycle ad. I'll have to dig it out.Comment
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At the January 1895 New York City "National Cycle Show" at madison square garden the Warwick Cycle Company had a space. Doesn't give a city for the Warwick Co. in this article, but it seems likely that it is the same firm later connected with the Warwick motorcycle of 1903.
Several other names listed that were later connected with the early motorcycle industry: Light, Pope, Keating, Waltham, Sager, etc.Last edited by HarleyCreation; 04-21-2008, 12:43 PM.Comment
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Pretty interesting stuff! One can only imagine the excitement surrounding the the potential new era of "two-wheeled, gas powered transportation". I imagine there was a lot of speculation early on regarding who would survive and from that date on there were obviously plenty of companies that took a run at motorcycles. I guess we all know how that turned out. It's just an assumption on my part, but I would have to agree that the Warwick Co. mentioned at the Madison Square Garden show was like the same firm that produced the Indian clone.Cory Othen
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More Warwick
This earlier (1895) Warwick Cycle Co. was based in Springfield, Mass. Check this out:
Full article here:WILL BICYCLES BE CHEAPER?;
A Springfield Manufacturer Makes a Cut Which Other Makers Do Not Like.
New York Times
May 28, 1893, Wednesday
Page 3, 412 words
Dealers In bicycles, and riders thereof, throughout the city are discussing with interest the outlook for cheaper bicycles of first-class manufacture. Last Thursday the Warwick Cycle Company of Springfield, Mass., announced that hereafter its highgrade bicycles of the 1893 stamp, which have previously sold for $150, would be sold for $85, and their 1892 machines for $65. [END OF FIRST PARAGRAPH]
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...639C94629ED7CF
Another article says that the Warwick Cycle Co. began in 1888 and ran into problems in 1898. At least the name came back for another try with motorcycles. This is a good little story with names and other details, but NYT won't let me copy and paste it from the pdf. You can find it here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...649C94699ED7CF
The question remains what happened after the firm went backrupt in 1898. How did it get back on its feet and what happened after 1898? And what was its connection with Indian? Cool little story as at least one of these Warwick motorcycles has survived.Comment
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In fact, a motorcycle was present at the 1895 N.Y. Bicycle Show. Not just a motorcycle, but: "The Motor Cycle" invented by Pennington and that's why I'm back there reliving the event. Everybody else in 1895 was going crazy over bicycles as the latest up-to-date high tech invention, but Pennington was ahead of them all with his outrageous "electro-vapor" powered device that he claimed would do nearly a mile-a-minute.Originally posted by c.o. View Post
Pennington deserves a lot more credit in the history books in spite of his flawed career. A great story and no mistake!Comment
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The question remains what happened after the firm went backrupt in 1898. How did it get back on its feet and what happened after 1898? And what was its connection with Indian? Cool little story as at least one of these Warwick motorcycles has survived.[/QUOTE]
Smells like the makin's of a book.....hint.....hint.......or possibly an article. It could include all the clones as well.
Pretty interesting stuff. I think now I may develop a habit of searching various newspaper archives. I still would be interested to know where that Warwick machine is today. Some better pictures would be nice. Oh, and Pennington was a character indeed. Somebody should make a movie about his exploits!Cory Othen
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When you think of it, the Warwick (1903) is probably more rare than a 1903 Indian. Somehow there must be a connection between the 1890s Warwick bicycle and the later motorcycle. It was very common for firm to go belly up and then come back for another try. The BIG question remains, however, of a connection between the Warwick people and the Indian people. Was there one? Or was it a blatant rip off copy? Sort of like the Milwaukee Comet was a take-off from the Harley and the Harley of the Merkel, but perhaps even closer, possibly a clone bike. Was it?
Pennington does deserve a movie. In the meantime, however, will a story do? One that sets the scene for everything that came later, name names, etc. Although "The Motor Cycle" not a commercial success, somehow Pennington got the motorcycle concept tuned to perfection already in the 1890s. How he managed that is a mystery, but he seemed to do that with everything he touched, almost like he had a window into the future and while put down and disgraced, his influence on other guys is amazing!Comment
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I was also wondering if there was a relation between Warwick and Indian. It seems to me that very early on Indian seemed open to acquiring an income any way they could. One wouldn't think that Thor would have been able to build a look alike if that wasn't the case. Now how is Warwick linked? Did they blatantly copy? Or did they build a machine with Indian's blessing? Did Indian or Thor supply the motor or did Warwick build it themselves? Hmmm......it's looking like the questions are plentiful. I think it would be a wonderful story to piece together, but it does seem like it could be a long-time daunting task. With only us participating in the thread it does seem so far that we are the only ones interested in figuring any of this out. It's too bad that a few of the more knowledgeable early enthusiasts aren't interested in getting on a computer and sharing their knowledge. Maybe if Pete reads this he can comment on the Warwick that is pictured with Andy Anderson.
Oh, and an article on Pennington would be just fine. Am I to assume that your working on something?Cory Othen
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It is possible to initial investigation using Google. Many newspapers have images of old issues posted on the internet, and the contents have been 'digitized' to allow some searches. These digitizations have not been proofed though, so misspellings are common. ...billBill Gilbert in OregonComment
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Yes, I am working on a Pennington story. If you didn't know it actually happened, you'd swear it must be a work of art. But like the old saying goes, truth is stranger than fiction. Pennington is a perfect example of that.
No matter how I try to figure Pennington out, there is something about him that remains a cipher. Almost like he was operating on a different plane of existence or something. My hunch is that the Wizard character in the Wizard of Oz was in part based upon him. Although largely reviled and scorned today as a fraud, he had great influence on motorcycling in the USA and in England too. He appears to be the one who first popularized the word "motor-cycle" which has stuck to present day.
Back to Warwick:
Do we know for sure it only existed in 1903?
Two ways to look at it:
1) Like other real early firms, Warwick just couldn't make it financially and was gone in a season or two. Some firms never made a single bike, only nice illustrated ads with lots of empty promises.
2) Did Indian have something to do with the Warwick's demise? Threats? Bought them out? Or no connection at all? But being right there in the same town and being a copy, you gotta wonder...
It's probably all there in the old Springfield newspapers or in early mc mags, either the whole story or in bits and pieces, if we could find it.Comment
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