old motorcycles

[Hrdly-Dangrs]

I think we're not seeing as many older pre-30's bikes because the collector crowd has been buying them up at these big money auctions.

The prices are thru the roof for correctly restored vintage motorcycles...(we only have ourselves to blame what with the AMCA highly respected and thorough judging venue) and its hard for some to resist selling off one or more of their old bikes for top dollar. The reasons are probably as varied as the makes of cycles....health issues, divorce, kids college costs...weddings or maybe they've just accumulated too may bikes...wish I had that last problem.

The money is large and the temptation is great...and likely some of these guys buying them up aren't really interested in hauling them out to a muddy field 200 miles away. I used to go to the Vintage motorcycle races up in Conn years ago when it was just greasy dirty motocycles and old sports cars...but then the money crowd came with their big truck rigs and their big dollar vintage Ferraris and the whole thing changed. I stopped going.

Big money collectors are more into prestige and hobnobbing (whens the last time someone used that word) with their wealthy associates and showing off their latest investment. They buy these vehicles to say they have one and they paid Big$ at the Big$ Auction and got themsleves on TV.

So if your looking for the really early iron maybe if you traveled a couple thousand miles out to one of the upcoming fancy smancy aristocrat shows that are becoming popular of late you'll get to see them. I know I'm out cause I couldn't afford the entry fee, drinks, fancy finger sandwiches. Besides I don't think a new pair of 'Americam Made' Timberland boots (yes they still make them..just have to sift thru Marty's Shoes to find them..check the tags carefully)...would pass for appropriate dress shoes. I like them though.

Likely its only going to get worse. Can't really fault an old motorcycle builder for selling off a bike or two to buy a new house and go on vacation to the Concours de Eligance.

Looks like I "misssed the boat" again....**** I just got an oil smudge on my new Tmberlands!! Hrdly

[AdminGuy]

Woooo-HEY! Hob-nobber buddie. I'm the king of cheap! At the concourse du rusted junk in San Fran I slept in a hostel lighthouse for 20 bucks a night. Some school kids fed me dinner one night for free. Then a buddie put me up one night. Which was very cool of him.

Horseback riding on the beach? Heck that's just good for the soul. Gotta do that.

My biggest capital expenditure was the air fair. If there is a will-there is a way.

You'll be happy to learn that some local older fellas around hear are passing machines to other "younger" riders that really want them. A bit of a discount and payment plans in some cases.

[c.o.]

Hey Paul, can we expect on seeing you with a Pioneer machine? I mean really somebody's gotta get a break on getting a "true antique"

P.S. Motor and tranny are done on the SS. It's all bits and pieces now!

[Ken Lee]

hello c.o. if you want to see lots of Pioneer machines then pop over here on March the 18th 2007 and go to Brighton on the south coast which is the finishing point of the 69th ''Pioneer Run'' which usually attracts about 350 pre 1915 motorcycles , the earliest about 1895 , I will be riding my '1904 James H.Smith' 3hp single speed direct drive maching , (i.e. no gears or clutch) Pete Gagan rode in the event I think it was last year , the atmosphere at the start 52 miles away at Epsom is terrific as it is at Brighton , most bikes / tricycles make it . fabulous ride too , Ken

[c.o.]

I really do envy you Ken. But, alas I won't be able to hop over the pond quite yet. I have often thought though that Brighton would be a great event! I hope you have fun. Those old beasts are just plain damn cool!

[AdminGuy]

I would very much like to get on a single speed - run and jump machine. Most definately of british origin. Saving my pennies. Diggin out of a little debt right now. When it happens you'll get a chance to ride it.

Let me know what small stuff you need Cory. I may have some for you.

[c.o.]

Cool I'm slowly starting to build my list. Thanks for the bike riding offer. I just may take you up on it!

[HarleyCreation]

In the early 1970s after a Honda CL 160 I gravitated to 1950 and earlier H-Ds and at that time 1930s and 40s bikes seemed OLD.

But as the years passed and my interests expanded, I came to see the origins of our sport as WAY more interesting. It was such an exciting and diverse time with new innovations and novelties every year that really meant something. Everybody was looking for the next best advance so they were seeking in all directions. Some valid, some freak, some good that fell by the wayside. Plus you had so many interesting personalities beginning with Pennington then Thomas, Metz, the Marsh brothers, Hendee & Henstrom, the boys from H-D, Mr. Schwinn, Joe Merkel, the Feilbach brothers, Perry E. Mack, and Andrew Strand just to name a few!

But in 1916 when Harley-Davidson brought out the modern kick-starter model that seemed to spell the end of rapid evolution and change. (Indian probably beat them to it but I don't know the year offhand).

After that the AMERICAN motorcycle platform stabilized for MANY years with WWI killing off the lesser makes. Things got pretty boring after that until 1936.

For decades nobody much cared about that WAY early stuff. Americans looked ahead. They wanted to get out and GO! What good was a primitive motor-bike that couldn't get out of its own way, sometimes without a clutch or gearing?

The old timers in our club saw it first, but they are passing away.

Good thread. I've thought a lot about this...

[HarleyCreation]

PS: How could I forget the Mitchell gang from Racine? (1899? 1901-1905/6?)

My own first cousin twice removed, Frank X. Zirbes, was Mitchell motorcycle line inspector and factory racer who participated in the first race that a Harley-Davidson was ever in on 8 September 1904 and he BEAT it!

Altho in the other race an Indian beat him....

[exeric]

I was re-reading this thread and I got a kick out of Petri's observation that a seasonal change is bringing out a philosophical outlook to old motorcycle lovers. You're probably right since it's getting colder up north and the AMCA meet season is over. In my case, I'm just goofing off at work. Also, a good friend of mine has a real bad case of old bike fever and his constant sniveling about wanting an old motorcycle is rubbing off on me. Actually I do have an old motorcycle that I should be working on and that should quell the lust for an old bike but I think we are all cursed with the selfish need to own every old motorcycle in the world. I have a 1911 Flying Merkel that's been "in process" for about 15 years. I'll work like a madman on it for a month or two and then get stopped dead because of some problem without an obvious solution. Over the years I have managed to scare up all the hard to find pieces and fix the big structural problems but even with that much progress, it is still a momumental project. Long projects like the Merkel are like some family members, you still love them but that doesn't mean you want to hang around with them.

[Ken Lee]

just to whet your appetite , here is a pic of my
''1904 James H.Smith'' that I ride in The Pioneer Run and a few other events , it's a great ride , we potter along about 30 mph , no clutch or gears , just keep going !!!! taking in the country scenery and the miles just go by , I guarantee you'll have a great ride and meet nice people on old bikes , keep riding them , Ken

[Ken Lee]

Oh dear photo didn't go , I'll try again , keep fingers crossed , Ken
I didn't ''save'' the pic resize -- sorry

[Ken Lee]

and again , sorry , not too clever on here , Ken

[AdminGuy]

Sadly as the earily American bike values sky rocket and get sold at auction. They pass into the hands of collectors/speculators with no intention of ever riding them. Relegated to permanent "plant stands and coffee tables for gutless men with big mouths". In many cases.

Ummmm..... is the Merkel a single or double?

[exeric]

"Gutless men with big mouths". I like that, I'll give you the credit when I use that one. We sure see a lot of that these days and unfortunately in our club too. Where ever there is a lot of money and the "bad man" persona (like you have with motorcycles) you are going to have rich a**holes. Great if you're selling, bad if you're trying to buy. The Merkel is a twin. I'll try to put a photo up this weekend but it isn't much to look at. I have a picture of it when I first got it and I am ashamed to say that it looks better in that picture than it does now. In my defense, I have to say that . . . . . Who am I try to kid, I don't have a defense.

The tough thing about restoring a motorcycle this old is trying to keep all of the original detail. You want to see parting lines in castings, and tool marks on hubs and round parts. Should I grind out rust pitting or fill with silver solder or lead ? These are all tough calls and in many cases, really hard things to do right. Talking to club members is a priceless resource and has been my guidance thus far. Bud Cox made a profound statement about restoring early motorcycles; "You could have started 25 years ago, or you could start 25 years from now. . . . It'll still be just as hard to do."