bikes being judged at oley 2010

[motorpickle]

Murph

I would like to add my opinion to your judging issue with the 1.5 deduction for blued pipes. I am a field judge and may be able to give some insight. Bluing of pipes is a subjective call on the judging field. "Normal" bluing associated with starting and limited running of a motor is generally overlooked, as it should be. Problems arise with certain makes and models when used as a daily rider while going through the judging system. Sportsters, Triumphs, BSAs, and a lot of other motors are subject to blue or yellow the exhaust pipes. This can happen while you are trying to dial the carb in or while twisting the grip on the highway. Even the best tuned carb may eventually discolor some chrome. Looking at your picture I would have to agree with the judges that the discoloration was excessive and should be a deduction. I also think the 1.5 point deduction was a little high and you should petition the new head judge to have this lowered. Ask to have the deduction lowered to 1/2 or 3/4 point. If this is done, leave everything as is and enjoy your trophies. Thank you for posting your pictures and allowing your fellow club members to join you on your quest for the Winners Circle.

[Paps]

Paps!

When only one pipe blues, it ain't the carb!

We all agree that blue pipes shouldn't be a judging criteria, but we all know what happens when the judges can't find anything else.

...Cotten

I agree Cotten. A manifold leak isn't judging criteria either though. That front one sure gets hot ! Anyone for bacon and eggs ?

[Paps]

Murph

I would like to add my opinion to your judging issue with the 1.5 deduction for blued pipes. I am a field judge and may be able to give some insight. Bluing of pipes is a subjective call on the judging field. "Normal" bluing associated with starting and limited running of a motor is generally overlooked, as it should be. Problems arise with certain makes and models when used as a daily rider while going through the judging system. Sportsters, Triumphs, BSAs, and a lot of other motors are subject to blue or yellow the exhaust pipes. This can happen while you are trying to dial the carb in or while twisting the grip on the highway. Even the best tuned carb may eventually discolor some chrome. Looking at your picture I would have to agree with the judges that the discoloration was excessive and should be a deduction. I also think the 1.5 point deduction was a little high and you should petition the new head judge to have this lowered. Ask to have the deduction lowered to 1/2 or 3/4 point. If this is done, leave everything as is and enjoy your trophies. Thank you for posting your pictures and allowing your fellow club members to join you on your quest for the Winners Circle.

Judging of engine performance is not a judging issue. That discoloration is an indicator of engine performance. It is not and indicator of a correct pipe. Paps

[murph]

Murph

I would like to add my opinion to your judging issue with the 1.5 deduction for blued pipes. I am a field judge and may be able to give some insight. Bluing of pipes is a subjective call on the judging field. "Normal" bluing associated with starting and limited running of a motor is generally overlooked, as it should be. Problems arise with certain makes and models when used as a daily rider while going through the judging system. Sportsters, Triumphs, BSAs, and a lot of other motors are subject to blue or yellow the exhaust pipes. This can happen while you are trying to dial the carb in or while twisting the grip on the highway. Even the best tuned carb may eventually discolor some chrome. Looking at your picture I would have to agree with the judges that the discoloration was excessive and should be a deduction. I also think the 1.5 point deduction was a little high and you should petition the new head judge to have this lowered. Ask to have the deduction lowered to 1/2 or 3/4 point. If this is done, leave everything as is and enjoy your trophies. Thank you for posting your pictures and allowing your fellow club members to join you on your quest for the Winners Circle.

Thanks for the opinion, I was just curious if that deduction was the norm and I got my answer. By complaining you become the discruntled parent at their boy's pee wee football game who's yelling at the coach. It's just a game (motorcycle) and if it's not fun for me to show it, I won't.

[Robin-M]

As former Assistant Chief Judge, I was normally the person that handled discrepancies such as this from a field judge's call. I would have to agree the 1.5 point was way too high. Normally if there would be a deduction, 1/4 to 1/2 point was the norm under the old judging system. Normally on a machine such as your Sportster and quite a few of the British bikes, the single wall chrome plated tubing with a tight sharp bend, as your front pipe is, normally results in bluing like you have. This is also proof that your machine runs and was quite common on machines such as yours. Congratulations on doing so well on your first time out, this is very hard to do. Job well done.

You should appeal to the new judging staff, that's the only way they'll learn.

Robin Markey
Former Assistant Chief Judge

[T. Cotten]

Normally on a machine such as your Sportster and quite a few of the British bikes, the single wall chrome plated tubing with a tight sharp bend, as your front pipe is, normally results in bluing like you have. This is also proof that your machine runs and was quite common on machines such as yours.

Gosh Robin,
Does that mean its a fault if it does not cook the chrome?

Quick, I need the Bern-zo-matic!

I'm an outsider to judging,
but I thought the whole gist of it was to improve the machines.

Perhaps a piece of a point is prudent after all.

...Cotten

[Sportster Jerry]

I own several sportsters and the pipes turn blue almost immediately on them. A restored bike is allowed to be ridden, isn't it? As a matter of fact, I thought the mission of the club is to get people to RIDE their antique bikes. If the overall appearance of the bike suggests that is not a daily driver, then my opinion is that blued pipes should not be a deduction.

[T. Cotten]

I own several sportsters and the pipes turn blue almost immediately on them. A restored bike is allowed to be ridden, isn't it? As a matter of fact, I thought the mission of the club is to get people to RIDE their antique bikes. If the overall appearance of the bike suggests that is not a daily driver, then my opinion is that blued pipes should not be a deduction.

Jerry!

Have you ever pressuretested your manifold assembly with soapy water for absolute certainty?

Just asking,

....Cotten

[Sportster Jerry]

yes i have. but the point is that a club encouraging people to ride old motorcycles should not deduct points for something that is a common side effect of riding. If the pipe is in otherwise good condition (good chrome, no dents, no scratches, etc), then coloring on the pipe should not be cause for deduction. I know there are a lot of people who trailer their bikes and might disagree, but I ride my bikes to the meets, sometimes hundreds of miles. Rules like this discourage people from riding in to the meets, and that is a bad thing in my opinion.

[William McClean]

Nice pictures

Thanks for posting the photos.

It is also nice to see the Sportster, the scoring, and the related judging discussion on the blueing of the pipe. Keep riding em !

[bmh]

Those Sporty pipes sure did blue easy. Leave her idling with the choke on a little and run back into the house to grab a pack of smokes and they're already blued. Heck I can remember seeing brand new ones on the showroom floor with blued pipes just from being test run at the factory.That's why H-D introduced the heat shields. Not to try and protect anyone's leg, but to hide all that ugly bluing that went on.

[panz4ever]

So if the intended purpose of the AMCA is not to just promote restoration but also education about and riding of old iron, why is there ANY deduction for bluing on chromed pipes? Hell if it is just about looks you can go to any HOG event and watch the trailer queens unload their bikes for the ride-in show (ride-in being relative to the distance from the trailer to the piece of space reserved to each bike).

'Subjective' what a term, what a poor excuse for not giving a bike its due!

[Steve Slocombe]

There was another great turnout of bikes for judging at Oley, and it was a privilege to help in judging them alongside a good sized group of experienced judges and apprentices. Fewer bikes were presented with no gas, no batteries or bad numbers, so the messages from Eustis must be getting round the Club. There were no as-raced competition bikes entered, and the factory racers were judged with the restored production bikes as planned. Judging was completed on time, the trophies presented, and team leaders then explained the deductions to owners so we can all do better next time.

On the exhaust bluing, some bluing from riding is specifically allowed in the Judging Handbook, as is road film, bug splatter, and signs of the bike being ridden to the meet. On the other hand, bikes have to be presentable, so we are talking about a judgement call from human beings. The Judging Committee is writing detailed guidelines on appropriate deductions in each category, but until that arrives you can appeal the deduction if it is felt to be too harsh. Club President Rocky Halter thanked all the judges Sunday morning for giving their time and expertise to help preserve motorcycle history, and I'd like to add my thanks and say I had a blast. Best regards.

[2wheels]

Hey, you're the english guy that started the mess with the judging. By the way it sounds, you're going to tell tall tales so people think everything is ok. If you were ever at an Oley meet, you should know that there was only half the bikes as normal in the judging. How about all those that kept their bikes out of the judging because they were upset about things that are happening to our judging, you're not saying a word about that. If you want us to trust these new judging people maybe you should start by telling the truth.

[speedracer]

There was another great turnout of bikes for judging at Oley, and it was a privilege to help in judging them alongside a good sized group of experienced judges and apprentices.

I have been going to Oley for about 10 years, and remember there being about 80 bikes judged every year. this year I counted about 40 bikes, that is quite a difference that might be a "great turnout" in Europe but not here. also only saw about 8 judges on the field, but it was hard to get an actual count as NOBODY had a judging vest on, before this there was a sea of orange vests
only saw one comp bike on the field and it was a restored as raced HD