Powerplus or Bust, Eh?

[Steve Swan]

A dear deceased friend who was a motorcycle man from the late 20's til he died 1998 (also a machinist/tool and die maker, Harley Davidson dealer in the early-mid 30's, service manager for a So.Cal H-D dealer until the war broke out) told me the greater number of tpi gave more mating surface area for the threads to pull against each other. He explained more threads, more surface area, the idea was to prevent loosening, because lock washers were uncommonly fitted. And the finer tpi screws had a higher grade better fitting thread to get as much material against the mating surface areas. Riveting or cotter pins were used in applications where excessive loosening was a concern. In the early 1900's through the late 20's, especially before the lock washer became commonly used, much research and testing went into diameter and thread pitch combination to reduce breakage and loosening. At least that's how he explained it to me. I have a copy of his H-D dealer letter head from the 30's and also 2 pictures of him with Clark Gable outside the dealership he was service manager at before WW2.

[fciron]

Nice bit here from the Cannonball website, an article by Mr. Baker himself about the Ner-A-Car trip. (I'm partial to the Ner-A-Car, I just got one.) It certainly gives the impression that he had a network of friends and support across the country as a result of his earlier trips, so there's no shame in going on an organized ride with a chase vehicle, IMHO.

http://www.motorcyclecannonball.com/...ries&Itemid=58

I think modern road conditions are more akin to a 1916 speed record attempt than a 1916 cross-country journey, so it would be reasonable to modify your bike to withstand sustained high speeds that the bike was not designed for. Perhaps you could compromise and use the best bearings available at the time. The oldest Machinery's Handbook I have is from 1924 and it has comprehensive selection of ball, roller, and even angular contact bearings.

Really it's about what you want to achieve; is your goal to make the journey on a bike that is as original as possible, to complete the journey and have a good time, or possibly to be the guy that gets the best time and comes in first?

Once you decide on that goal, then you can decide on how much you need to improve the bike to meet that goal.

Good luck and keep the pictures coming.

Lewis

[Shaky Jake]

A dear deceased friend who was a motorcycle man from the late 20's til he died 1998 (also a machinist/tool and die maker, Harley Davidson dealer in the early-mid 30's, service manager for a So.Cal H-D dealer until the war broke out) told me the greater number of tpi gave more mating surface area for the threads to pull against each other. He explained more threads, more surface area, the idea was to prevent loosening, because lock washers were uncommonly fitted. And the finer tpi screws had a higher grade better fitting thread to get as much material against the mating surface areas. Riveting or cotter pins were used in applications where excessive loosening was a concern. In the early 1900's through the late 20's, especially before the lock washer became commonly used, much research and testing went into diameter and thread pitch combination to reduce breakage and loosening. At least that's how he explained it to me. I have a copy of his H-D dealer letter head from the 30's and also 2 pictures of him with Clark Gable outside the dealership he was service manager at before WW2.

Thanks for sharing that memory Steve. It seems like a lot of technical information that was known in those days was not written down, it's good to talk about it. You're right about lock washers. The few lock washers that I've found on my bike were clearly not original, just something someone used because they didn't have the right part. In general I've noticed that the clearances between bolts and bolt holes is tight by todays standards, too. Rivets and pins are common on it.

Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Eric and Lewis, you make good points. In general I have never been one that feels the need to prove my manhood. What Baker did was cool. I will never be able to do what he did, that ship has sailed, times have changed. No matter what I do on the Cannonball it will not be as cool as what he did. I don't really care about winning either, I just want to do it. So, at this point, I'm leaning towards option A, with the modern tires and drinking and carousing.

I'm still willing to listen to opposing views... I've got two years to go.

Kevin

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[exeric]

Common engineering practice is to use fine threads in harder metals like steel, and coarse threads in castings, and soft metals like brass, and aluminum. I've always thought 1/4-24 was a compromise fastener that was used because it covered more applications. H-D and Indian used that thread size a lot, particularly H-D.

[bobbyt]

Many of the early motorcycle makers began as bicycle makers. The early thread pitches likely came from
bicycle engineering. The standardization really started during WWI; the military needed it.

Bob Turek
#769

[Shaky Jake]

Rear Wheel Parts

Now that I've got both rear wheels apart I've taken a look to see what it's going to take to put together an original rear wheel. I'm not saying I'm going to ride the Cannonball on an original rear wheel, I may or may not, it may be my back-up.

I've got two good hubs, each with one bad bearing cup. I've get one good adjusting cone, missing it's dust shield. I've got one good hollow axle. I've got one good rim, still attached to one of the hubs, but needing at least 5 new spokes. I've got one axle nut, rough but good enough to use or copy. I have one usable sprocket nut. I've got one chain adjuster plate and one chain adjuster screw. I have one good axle bushing. I have 26 spokes that I saved from the rear wheel, some of which may be useable. So, here's a list of what I need to make one wheel:

(1) Brake Drum
(1) Brake Drum Retaining Nut
(5+) Spokes & Nipples
(1) Chain Adjuster
(1) Chain Adjuster Screw
(1) Center Axle
(1) Center Axle Nut
(1) Rear Sprocket
(1) Bearing Cup
(22) 7/16" Ball Bearings
(1) Stationary Cone w/ Dust Cap
(1) Adjusting Cone Dust Cap
(1) Axle Bushing


Ziggy Kapuscinski in Canada has a repop brake drum, so I've ordered it and it's on the way.

I've ordered the following rear wheel parts from Walker Machine:
(2) Ball Bearing Cups (I might as well replace them both)
(22) 7/16 inch Ball Bearings
(1) Adjustable cone w/ Dust Cap (I'll use my old one for a spare)
(1) Chain Adjuster Plate
(2) Axle Bushings (I'll use my good one for a spare)
(1) 36 tooth Rear Sprocket



So, that leaves me short the following parts, which I have not found a source for:
(1) Brake Drum Retaining Nut
(1) Chain Adjuster Screw
(1) Center Axle
(1) Center Axle Nut
(1) Stationary Cone w/ Dust Cap



If anyone knows a source for these parts, please let me know. I heard there's another Indian parts guy somewhere in Oregon, but I haven't researched it yet. Any info would be helpful. The most critical item is the stationary cone. If I can buy the other stuff too, good. Otherwise, I think I know a local machinist that can make the drum retaining nut for me. The chain adjuster screw, center axle, and center axle nuts I'm pretty sure I can make myself.

The overall plan will be to use the original hub and rim, which are still laced together, as the basis for the wheel. I'll de-rust the rim in place, adjust and replace spokes as needed, stuff the new parts into the hub, and mount it up.

Parting comment - I've been thinking about Lewis's comments about goals. My goal for the 2016 Cannonball is to ride all of the miles on my 100 year old motorcycle. That's what I'm working towards.


Have a blessed Sunday.


Kevin

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[Robert Luland]

Keven, seems like your off to a good start. Nothing for nothing but whats wrong with that lathe in your shop. Seems to me you could easily make ninety percent of what your looking for and do a great job. That is what restoring and learning is about. I to shyed away from the machines when I started out but it didn't take me long to realize that the lathe and mill were my allies in a very uphill fight. Bob L

[Shaky Jake]

Keven, seems like your off to a good start. Nothing for nothing but whats wrong with that lathe in your shop. Seems to me you could easily make ninety percent of what your looking for and do a great job. That is what restoring and learning is about. I to shyed away from the machines when I started out but it didn't take me long to realize that the lathe and mill were my allies in a very uphill fight. Bob L

You make a good point Robert. There's nothing wrong with that little Southbend, I use it all the time. I used to work as a Machinist, in the 1970's. I have the skills and I enjoy doing it. I don't shy away from it. If you read the thread you know that I've already said that I'll make whatever parts I can't buy. To answer your question, it's all about the time. If someone has a part on the shelf, it saves me time.

That being said, if you have a line on a good used Bridgeport, I've been keeping an eye out for one, even though I don't have a place to put it yet.

Kevin

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[Robert Luland]

OK, may be I missed something here. You want to finish this bike and be 100 percent road ready to leave in this years Cannon Ball in September? And yet your talking about maybe being able to use the original rims. I wish you all the luck in the world Sir. Bob L

[Shaky Jake]

OK, may be I missed something here. You want to finish this bike and be 100 percent road ready to leave in this years Cannon Ball in September? And yet your talking about maybe being able to use the original rims. I wish you all the luck in the world Sir. Bob L

Maybe you did, or maybe I made a typing error somewhere? 2016 Cannonball (if they have one). When it's 100 years old. I said that in the 4th post, and again in my post right before your first one. Two years is still an aggressive schedule, but much better than a month. Sorry for the confusion if I typo'd it somewhere. I appreciate your input and good wishes Bob.

Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Front Wheel Update

Some good news on the front wheel. It turns out that Walker Machine has bearing cups in stock, so I ordered a set of those. I've already ordered the ball bearings from them. They say they can make the cones, but it will take a while. Once they shoot me a price I'll probably order a set of them. As for the front axle, I got a PM from a member of a different forum telling me that bicycle coaster brake hubs use 3/8 - 24 TPI axles, which is what I need. Sure enough, I got on ebay and found one that looks like it will work. Once all that stuff comes in, I will have what I need to fix my original front wheel.

Kevin

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[10E]

Shaky Jake
Just noticed your posts on clincher rims etc.
I've put on approx. 20k miles on clinchers on my 14 HD. Pretty hard riding at times. No flats or problems, we even used rickshaw tires in the 70s. On one run across the country using Cocker Non-Skid tires I was actually down to the cord beforeI changed it ( not recommended) On the same ride had a screwdriver go through the sidewall and out the other side without hitting the tube, not sure how many miles I rode it like that ( up to 300 miles maybe) and have the photo to prove it, and then------- Cleveland Ohio 2012.
Not sure what actually happened but after 60 miles of freeway travel we were on a B road on ramp at speed (45/50) when the rear tire came off the rim, wrapped itself around around the frame and I had some very violent fishtales until I decided to go down before it tossed me over the handlebars.
Lesson 1 End of lesson. Drop-center rims are safer than clinchers----- I now have modern rims and tires. and consider myself very fortunate.
Funny, Just rode 120 miles on the Pete Youngs" "Rigid Ride" and still feel that the Non Skids give a better feel for the road, go figure. I'm sticking with the modern stuff.
Hope this helps
All the best
10E

[Shaky Jake]

Thanks for sharing your experience, 10E. That's exactly the kind of information I need. I hope you have healed well after the accident. Having been over the handlebars myself, well, some of my old bones are aching just thinking about it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to use modern rims and tires on the Cannonball.

Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Swing Arm Removal

All things considered, the rear suspension was to be pretty tight, despite it's crusty appearance:






Some of the fasteners had been switched around, and the nickel plated parts had been painted with a brush:






But the swingarm pivot appeared to be tight:






Looking up from under the transmission mount, there is a bolt that clamps the swingarm pin in place:






Once the bolt was out, and the bushings well soaked with penetrating oil, I used a chunk of brass and a hammer to drive the pin back and forth, until it loosened up:






And out she came:








This is the pin after it was cleaned up. It looks rough in the picture, but it's actually pretty smooth, just a bit stained:






This is what the bushings looked like after the pin was out. They look crusty, but they cleaned up really nicely. I forget to get an 'after' picture.






There are four bolts that attach the swingarm uprights to the leaf springs. Once they are removed, the swingarm is free:






Kevin

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