Cyclone production numbers

[jurassic]

can someone translate?

[jurassic]

[sveger]

Cyclones and more

I do agree with Barry in that the Koehler Escoffier from France have a clare resemblance to the Cyclone engine design. I was at Monthlery France at the vintage race many years ago where a OHC Koehler Escoffier was raced, that was spectacular, sound was terrific.

Jurassic, the dutch text is roughly as this;
Mr. Herkuleijns is shown on his Excelsior racer ready to compete with Mr. Brinkhof who sits on his Thiem racer. The Thiem is an American Machine with a Cyclone engine. The Cyclone engine is a very special design with its bewel driven OHC design. Picture is taken approx. 1917.
Later on the text explains a lot on Mr. Herkuleijns Harley racer.

Obviously there have been a Cyclone motor in Europe and it might very well have influated on the beautyfull Koehler OHC`s.

Very cool photos both the reading Standard with Cyclone motor and the pic from the Netherlands.
Sverre
AMcN
http://AmericanMotorcyclesNorway.blogspot.com

[Barry Brown]

Sverre, I am sure I read somewhere that Reading sold all the old Cyclone/Reading ohc patterns etc. to someone or company in Europe in the 1920's. This would seem to be an obvious link to the Koehler Escoffier. ohc.

[SMS]

Grrrrrrreat thread guys.

Keep the Cyclone stuff coming.

BTW, they were not all yellow. In fact they were not all even made of steel tubing...

[jurassic]

Grrrrrrreat thread guys.

Keep the Cyclone stuff coming.

BTW, they were not all yellow. In fact they were not all even made of steel tubing...

now that is a cool picture. really amazing .do you know where it was taken? email a clear copy ,and i'll post it bigger.

[SMS]

now that is a cool picture. really amazing .do you know where it was taken? email a clear copy ,and i'll post it bigger.

Thanks. That is my Grandfather in St. Paul, Minnesota.
I have a better one of that shot without the date stamp (from when I took a picture of a picture) I'll get to in a few days.

[c.o.]

That is a great picture! I love how the fellas back then just made stuff work...

[Chuck#1848]

I have to agree Cory, if we think about it I am sure that quite a few different brands of motors ended up as snow machines and saws among other things.

Thankyou to everyone that has been contributing to this thread it is truly amazing the resources and knowlege that is here.

The guy I was originally talking to about this topic and the amount of Cyclones made is suppose to come over this weekend,I think I will set him down infront of the computer for a real educational experience..........maybe pick up a new member to.

Man.......I can't wait till Oley!!

[SMS]

The high profile long distance races seem to dominate the headlines. Recounts of the events often cite the Cyclone dnf causes as "broken gas tank", "broken handlebar", "cracked frame". Despite the high oil consumption during a race, we don't often read of engine failures. Further, reading just the 300 mile feature stuff you would think the race teams were pretty much failures, however looking at the short dirt tracks in the midwest we read about johns and Cyclone taking 4 of 7 races in an evening, and in Missouri, Fleckenstein taking 4 of 4. A 1915 Kansas amateur state championship was won on a Cyclone.

As far as production numbers, I would think the sometimes quoted 300 makes sense. On the currently known bikes, we see serial numbers from 4 up into the mid 150s if my memory is right. Accounts of dealerships in L.A. "stopping traffic" when the new machines were put on display, and crouds overflowing the show rooms in Brooklyn give reason to belive a decent number existed if they could stock showrooms from coast to coast.

[HarleyCreation]

The high profile long distance races seem to dominate the headlines. Recounts of the events often cite the Cyclone dnf causes as "broken gas tank", "broken handlebar", "cracked frame". Despite the high oil consumption during a race, we don't often read of engine failures. Further, reading just the 300 mile feature stuff you would think the race teams were pretty much failures, however looking at the short dirt tracks in the midwest we read about johns and Cyclone taking 4 of 7 races in an evening, and in Missouri, Fleckenstein taking 4 of 4. A 1915 Kansas amateur state championship was won on a Cyclone.

Good points. It would be interesting to know how long the races were that Cyclones actually won. They entered a couple of 100 mile races in Milwaukee in 1915, but didn't do well there. Nor in the famous 1915 Dodge City 300-mile race. But the shorter events may have been more successful. That would be a fun study.

As far as production numbers, I would think the sometimes quoted 300 makes sense. On the currently known bikes, we see serial numbers from 4 up into the mid 150s if my memory is right. Accounts of dealerships in L.A. "stopping traffic" when the new machines were put on display, and crouds overflowing the show rooms in Brooklyn give reason to belive a decent number existed if they could stock showrooms from coast to coast.

But did they "stock showrooms" from coast to coast? It doesn't look that way from the old mags I have seen. The known record of deliveries appears very small. I don't know the answer, but a "300" bike production seems large for a make that shows up on the race track more often than on the road. We also know early manfs faked production by boosting high serial numbers just to look good. We need more good original info.

Thanks!

[SMS]

"After this, the yellow Cyclone's presence soared in motor-minded Los Angeles, and when C. L. Smith, a well know dealer, opened his new Cyclone agency on Main Street, the enthusiastic croud overflowed the building. When machines were displayed outside, the crouds stopped traffic on the street.
George Ashley, prominent in the New York City motorcycle trade, found a similar response when he opened his Cyclone dealership at 1213 Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn, that year. "


The above paragraphs are from Cycle World contributor J. L. Beardsley. I guess I should have said Showrooms on EACH coast, not from coast to coast, which was an assumption without basis at this time. Nevertheless, supplying enough bikes that these firms seemed to open a Cyclone specific outlet makes one think, and if anyone has any intel related to these sales outlets, that would be great to hear about!

[HarleyCreation]

"After this, the yellow Cyclone's presence soared in motor-minded Los Angeles, and when C. L. Smith, a well know dealer, opened his new Cyclone agency on Main Street, the enthusiastic croud overflowed the building. When machines were displayed outside, the crouds stopped traffic on the street.
George Ashley, prominent in the New York City motorcycle trade, found a similar response when he opened his Cyclone dealership at 1213 Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn, that year. "


The above paragraphs are from Cycle World contributor J. L. Beardsley. I guess I should have said Showrooms on EACH coast, not from coast to coast, which was an assumption without basis at this time. Nevertheless, supplying enough bikes that these firms seemed to open a Cyclone specific outlet makes one think, and if anyone has any intel related to these sales outlets, that would be great to hear about!

I wonder if I have that Cycle World issue. Do you have the date for it?

That does make it sound like the Cyclone drew attention on the showroom floor. No doubt it did. At the time it had a reputation as the "yellow devil" and there was good reason for it. Just too bad it never won a major race. If it had lasted longer it probably would have.

As you say, the question of how many road models were actually delivered needs more documentation. I looked thru Wis. mc regs and couldn't find a single one. Nor any in the big Goodfellowship tours in Milwaukee in those years. Almost every other make was present, but not a road Cyclone in sight. Possibly things were different in other parts of the country.

[SMS]

The issue is May (I think) of 1970. If not May it is right around there in 70.

J.L. Beardsley wrote the story. Interestingly he has written a letter to my Grandfather shortly before that where he said he was writing a Cyclone story and is seeking information. I have the letter, but no corresponding reply. Does anyone have any leads on the publication's records or research notes that Beardsley may have made and filed during that story prep? Same for a 1961 issue of "Antique Motorcycles" where Emmett Moore wrote a nice Cyclone article. The author's interview notes for the articles may reveal interesting facts that at the time did not seem essential to the story, but may be of great interest to us today.

[HarleyCreation]

The issue is May (I think) of 1970. If not May it is right around there in 70.

J.L. Beardsley wrote the story. Interestingly he has written a letter to my Grandfather shortly before that where he said he was writing a Cyclone story and is seeking information. I have the letter, but no corresponding reply. Does anyone have any leads on the publication's records or research notes that Beardsley may have made and filed during that story prep? Same for a 1961 issue of "Antique Motorcycles" where Emmett Moore wrote a nice Cyclone article. The author's interview notes for the articles may reveal interesting facts that at the time did not seem essential to the story, but may be of great interest to us today.

I don't have that issue.

Unless you can track Mr. Beardsley down, the published story is probably the best you can hope for. Finding original notes to either story would be a great tho.

Can you tell us the story of your grandfather. How did he come to get that Cyclone motor? Did he originally have the entire bike? Did he build that motor sled? What became of it? How did Beardsley come to contact him? Do you know if it was race motor or a road model?