"new" barn finds...

[Chris Border MFG]

I just got a call from a friend of mine from the hotrod world. He told me of a "barnfind" car he went to go buy. The pictures were of a mid forties lakes style model A hotrod. Period perfect. Just pulled out of the shed after a almost 60 year nap. He wanted it in the worst way. I dont blame him, me too. When he got there. The car was just as he had seen in the pics. It was not until money changed hands and it was loaded on the trailer that he had a bomb dropped on him. The car was less than a year old. Built to look like an old hotrod. All the right patiena and war wounds. The works. It was a fake.

This brings me to my point. How do the motorcycle groups feel about "NOS" ( new old style) builds. There are some very talented people out there that car build and make a new bike look old. Just like a true barn find. In the car world, If its known that its new up front, its usually accepted. I am not talking rat rods or rat bikes. I am talking true looking " original " bikes.

Just wanted to know the feelings here. We all love the barnfinds. How about new barn posers? Just asking please dont shoot me.

[Gomer]

Interesting concept although I find the way your friend found out down right underhanded. But saying that if everyhing was on the up and up and not advertised as anything but a remake I kind of like the idea. I am not sure how this plays out in the long run, in other words, the second or third owner, but somehow I think we will all find out. With the prices these things are bringing making a remake of a certain madel might be the only way a common man can afford one, just like the remake Yenko chevelles.

[exeric]

Interesting concept although I find the way your friend found out down right underhanded.


I don't understand. What was underhanded on the buyer's part?

[panz4ever]

How did he not discover it was a fake before buying it. Found a 36 Chevy master Coupe in iowa in a barn. Pretty hard to cover up road dirt under the frame or a few extra cob webs. Restoring a 55 Chevy Cameo that was in a field in Fresno, Ca. Pretty hard to mask the age and wear and tear on old vehicles/motorcycles. Be curious to see some pics if you would like to share them. There is always a lesson to be learned from the misfortunes of others.

[Chris Border MFG]

I kinda agree with the underhanded part. Its not as hard to mask or make look like an old barn or field item as you might think. I have seen it done on both cars and bikes. I also agree with when it changes hands a few times nobody will know. I dont mean restored either. I mean looks like you just pulled it out of the barn. I will look for some pics to help explain.

[Chris Border MFG]

As an example. I know of a Yale that was an unrestored original bike. Very nice but one of the frame tubes and seen some very bad repairs over the years. This tube was cut out and replaced with a new one. The area was then painted and striped just like new. Then its was "aged" to match the rest of the bike. You could not tell at all it was ever done. That being said, what would keep someone from doing an entire bike that way? And if it was or is done. How do people take it? The car thing just got me thinking about it. Its done all the time with old hot rods. But I dont know about bikes. I am ok with it as long as its known what was done. If you find 3/4 of a frame and a motor. Then come up with a tank. Why not put it together as an unreastored original. These thing are only that way once.

[Barry Brown]

deja vu on this topic . Old time look "patination" has been going on for about 20 years or more from my observations . The first example I remember was an Excelsior that Brad Wilmarth did for Dave Leitner. It was a work of art . Brad also does first class restos.
If that tv show ever gets going it'll be the barns that will be in short supply not the doctored bikes. In Canada most early bikes were registered in the cities and that is where they have been found, ie. in garages and basements NOT barns. probably the same for the USA. I guess "basement find" doesn't have the same ring, sounds more like a serial killer was involved.

[INLINE4NUT]

Sounds to me like at some point in time someone may have to have lead removed from their knees !!! of course the person had a hardon for the car and thought they were the ones getting over,I guess the old sayings apply,if its to good to be true,Buyer beware !!

[motorhead1]

Always carry a baseball bat and your bail money when you go out buying.

[flat-happy]

dishonest is dishonest---there's no gray area unless you're a lawyer or a politician

[bmh]

I have stated before that this whole "patina job" thing was gonna head this direction. Having dealt with enough antique dealers over the years I have seen the lengths that people will go to to turn a profit. Some people are very crafty at forging and lying. They always have just the right story for the occasion. They are great at knowing what a person wants to hear and very skilled at the art of distraction. These machines always seem to bring nothing but controversy, maybe those that build them live for the drama. I for one would be just as happy if the practice of building new bikes to look like old ones was not something that was tolerated in our hobby. Guess I'll just add that to a long list of things I wish were different in this world. Till then I become even more sceptical every time I go to look at an old bike. The old adage buyer beware has never been better advice.

[Dave R]

...I have seen the lengths that people will go to to turn a profit....They always have just the right story for the occasion. They are great at knowing what a person wants to hear and very skilled at the art of distraction.

...Bingo !!! Could not have been said any better.

Did you ever stop and think about how those hundreds of collector cars that have suddenly turned up in the last few years.... "with only 8,000 original miles"....

Give me a break. ..."Follow the Money"

[jurassic]

gee ,maybe if i had actually paid that appraiser,i wouldn't have gotten screwed.

[ratfink]

Paying an appraiser is not always the answer.

Years ao, I was looking to buy a '55 Chevy as a daily driver. Found one on line and the seller assured me it was what I was looking for. I hired an appraiser and explained exactly what I was looking for and he appraised the car. With the appraiser's confirmation, I bought the car.

The car was transported up from LA to CT. It arrives and it is a POS. Far from a "daily driver" and a shoemaker's dream. I had no recourse with anyone; the seller was just being a seller and the appraiser stood by his "opinion".

On the topic at hand; a fake is a fake is a fake. And just as bad as "clones". It devalues the true survivors.

[c.o.]

Chris, unbeknownst to you ,this subject as Barry stated, contains an element of deja-vu for a lot of us. This topic was beat to death some time ago and as you can see by the responses there are some strong opinions regarding "fakes". I've stated this before and some agree and some obviously don't. It seems to me that if the true "originals" could somehow be documented as they show up at meets, eventually a roster of these bikes could be developed and then after that it's up to the owner who brings a new "find" in to prove his bike is the real deal. There are some very qualified folks in this club that are able to smell a fantasy bike a mile away. Having said that I kind of like the "patina" type machines if they are well done. What can I say? I like the "old" look. There are only so many true originals out there and anything after that, whether it's made to look old or is a shiney resto is just a representation of the past. I don't think a "patina" type bike is any different than the mass amounts of bikes that are said to be mostly original that are painted up better than new but are riddled with re-pop or incorrect parts. All one has to do is post an ebay auction here and have folks weigh in on it to see a "so called" original picked apart. So what's more dishonest? A bike that's made to look 100 years old or a blatantly restored machine with re-pop parts that is passed off as a true original? Fellas..... we are into machines that are long past their day. Some great survivors made it but what's left for the younger folks that want a piece of the action? There are a lot of folks that are honest when it comes to their machines. It's just unfortunate that some people aren't.