Harley-Davidson's "Belated" or Correct (1904-1954) 50th Anniversary?

[bmh]

Just a thought. Has anyone ever considered that the day the company was founded and the date they actually had a machine available for sale or even testing are most likely two different dates. So which of these two or three events are we celebrating the anniversary of ? There is a lot of fuss about when the first machine was done, but that does not necessarily coincide with the birth of the company. I guess I'm seeing a chicken or the egg type of a thing. Was there a Motor company before there was a motorcycle or was there a motorcycle before there was a company? and which anniversary did they choose to celebrate?

[Chris Haynes]

Think about the name, Harley-Davidson Motor Company. It was not Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Company. I had heard storied that they originally started out to build Motors to be mounted on bicycles. Then they did for sure build Marine Motors.

[c.o.]

Yepper and we know that at least one motor made it into a bowling alley!!!

[Blupacer]

The Legend Begins

In H-D's 1993 book The Legend Begins page 208 starts list of Models. Model #1 is 1905 battery single 28"! In 1916 the Model designation changes to year of production.
I belive that 1903 date is the begining of the Motor Company,1905 for real production, but as my wife says you are pregnant a long time befor you give birth.
Steve

[Blupacer]

The Legend Begins

In H-D's 1993 book The Legend Begins page 208 starts list of Models. Model #1 is 1905 battery single 28"! In 1916 the Model designation changes to year of production.
I belive that 1903 date is the begining of the Motor Company,1905 for real production, but as my wife says you are pregnant a long time befor you give birth.
Steve

[aka HAWG]

while going through my motorcycle manual library today I ran across my photo-copied copies of the 1905-06, 1907 and 1908 harley riders hand books ( tag states they are reproductions of original harley material - take it as you may )

in the 1908 book it's claim is that 1908 is h-d's fifth year of production. ( I tried to scan but comes out to fuzzy to read here )

from first page - FIFTH YEAR 1908 the harley davidson motorcycle needs no introduction. the first machine built by us five years ago embodied principles new to the motorcycle trade. our 1908 model still contains these principles, refined and developed scientifically and practically, until we have arrived at the prefection shown in our latest production

in our 1908 motorcycle we are presenting the result of 5 years of improvemens on one model, our 3 1/4 hp and it is most gratifying to note that principles which we have always advocated, are gradually being adopted as standards

the name harley davidson, is an absolute guarantee of quality and reliablity.


in an 1917 h-d hand book the last page claims - and now harley-davidson bicycles. in the same beatiful military drab that marks the 1917 harley-davidson motorcycles,

for more than 15 years harley davidson motorcycles have been successfully sold in constantly increasing numbers......

in 1908 they claim 5 years, and 9 years later it has grone to over 15 years

there is no year claims in the 1905-06 or the 1907 hand books, that is too bad

aka HAWG

[Chris Haynes]

Herb, In my opinion you are making alot of assumptions based on your personal prejudice.

If you call years of painstaking research "Personal Prejudice" then so be it. BTW, Can you show me any instance when H-D has done any outside the archives research to document when these reported to have happened in MoCo Sales Hype actions actually happened? Things documented in public record like the marriage? Things in company employment records like when Walter left the Katy Railroad to come home for William's wedding?

[koanes]

I guess I chose my words poorly again. I'm not a wordsmith. I think I have made it clear that I have the utmost respect for Herb Wagner and his work. I disagree with Herb's conclusion, based on what we know, that there were no other machines built, tested, and possibly passed on. I think some of the factory claims that there were other machines could be based in fact, and lack of hard evidence to the contrary, I recognize the possibility. Am I the only one that thinhks this way?

[pem]

Hi Kyle, I can't speak for Herb but I think the you have to understand that most everything written back then is very suspect. I also agree with you that there had to be more prototypes. But the fact remains there is no evidence from the years 1903 or 1904 that more than one prototype was buiilt. I quess you can say the 1903 bicycle motor was a prototype but I think that would be stretching the definition of prototype. 1905 is full of evidence for a production bike. No question about that. I would love to see somebody post a 1903 photograph or a 1904 blueprint but right now they just don't exist. Tons of stuff was written in later years with clues to the origin and so forth but most was just advertising hype. I think the key word here is production. When was the first bike produced for sale to the publiuc? I for one think Herb has had it right all along. He doesn't leave out the possiblity of other prototypes it's just that there is no evidence from the actual years of 1903 or 1904. You might wonder why I'm so pationate about HD's early years. I just spent a couple weeks rewriting my Perry Mack research and I'm all the way to 1911. I've been researching him for 15 years and went back and reread my notes and such and have changed my ideas. I still believe he was involved in the design of the first HD production motor. But his hsitory is also suspect and full of half-truths, shady dealings and advertising hype. It just seemed to be the way things were done back then.

Dick

[c.o.]

Thanks for saving me some typing Dick! We should ask ourselves one question though.....is Kyle questioning all of this because he may know the whereabouts of another prototype?? LOL!! I personally have no reason at this point to question Herb's documentation thus far. The 1908 advanced bulletin suggests that in the Summer of '03 the small displacement diamond frame bicycle model gets it's first test run. At this point they decide they are on to something but they were going to have to go back to the drawing board. Then it indicates that in the following year the bigger displacement machine appeared on the scene. Then it goes on to say it was of satisfactory success that they could justify pursuing production. (I hope I'm accurate with this!) Could another kick at the cat have happened in that time? Maybe. But all they had to do was look across the way to the Merkel and his underpowered machine to see that they had to go big to be successful. So while I'm by no means an authority on any of this and it's just opinion on my part, I just don't see why they would waste their time improving on the bicycle machine when they knew they had to do something siginificantly different to get in the game. The outcome was the 1904 prototype. Just a thought.......... I know one thing for sure though....I have to sit down and re-read "At The Creation" to brush up on a few things! The part I like about this book is there is a lot less "speculation" and more documented evidence than the other historic accounts I have read. I also agree with Dick in that it would be nice to hear more documented evidence from the 1903-1904 era.

[koanes]

Dick, I look forward to reading the Perry Mack book you are working on. 15 years is a lot of research. The people and events of that time period are very interesting to me. Truthfully, more interesting than the belt and bicycle pedal motorcycles. I will have a little time recovering from orthopedic surgery soon, I'll get At The Creation off the shelf and read it again. I bought it shortly after release, so its been a while. Cory, if I knew where to find a prototype or any early machine, I would certainly share that info. I am from LaCrosse WI, a hotbed of Harley activity from early on. The 06 buckboard motor was found just 25 miles from my home. The LaCrosse police were chasing bad guys on an 09 model. I'm presently trying to finish the resto of a 36VLH that is rumored to have been a police machine from the same department. Who knows, maybe the next barn story I pursue will have a happy ending.

[bear54]

Yes, I know of at least one, a 1954 yellow KH. Compared to the shenanigans on Wall Street, or in Springfield, IL, I guess fudging your anniversary by one year doesn't really create much of a sensation these days.

I've seen that bike also. As I recall it is a very bright yellow, what I know as "Champion Yellow" from 1956 and on, not the Anniversary Yellow from 1954 which is darker and seems to have more green in it.

[HarleyCreation]

In H-D's 1993 book The Legend Begins page 208 starts list of Models. Model #1 is 1905 battery single 28"! In 1916 the Model designation changes to year of production.
I belive that 1903 date is the begining of the Motor Company,1905 for real production, but as my wife says you are pregnant a long time befor you give birth.
Steve

Your wife is right. The boys were pregnant a long time before they gave birth, so to speak.

Bill Harley and Arty D. may have seen Pennington's fabulous "The Motor Cycle" in Milwaukee in 1895. If that flying machine wasn't inspiration enough, nothing was. They only lived a few blocks away.

Also, we have documented as FACT Bill Harley's first motor engineering drawing dated July 1901. Then, in 1903 Walter came home for brother Bill's wedding and started helping Arthur and Harley with their dinky motorized bicycle (not motorcycle) project which they soon abandoned totally. But it was a valuable learning experience...

Working on an entirely new design (probably patterned after the Merkel), Harley & Davidson's first motorcycle proto was finished the next year. We documented this "Harley-Davidson" machine at a Milwaukee race in Sept. of 1904. That is Harley's true beginning and start.

So "The Legend Begins" tells the truth when it states that 1905 was "Model 1" because that's when the first Harley's hit the marketplace.

All that is a far cry from what H-D has claimed over the years and still claims. That they actually built and sold motorcycles in 1903 and by some accounts in 1902 and 1901.

In our culture birthdays are normally handed out on your "birth-day" and not on the-gleam-in-your-daddy's-eye day. The guys in 1954 were honest because the first real Harley-Davidson motorcycle was born in 1904 and they knew it.

There is actually an entire book written about this vexing problem of H-D's controversial gestation and birth.

[HarleyCreation]

Isn't it possible, given the ambition and enthusiasm these men showed, that they could have had a working machine in early summer? And likely that they may have been working on more than one engine at a time. If they had patterns, how hard would it be to cast and work up enough parts and pieces for a few more engines. We're talking about a very simple machine. By your own admission, you thought that it was remarkable that they were able to show up with a solid, functional machine in Sept. 04 a short year and a half from the April 03 date. Unless we assume that the 04 bike happened by some miracle, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that Mr. Harley and the Davidsons aggressively pursued their dream and put a few motor bicycles together for testing and development? Maybe a couple of those machines were sold to friends and associates to help with the cash flow required to carry on.

One teens sources does say that (if memory serves me right) that "4 sets" of crankcases were cast up and one set was given to their pal Henry Melk. But that was the first 10-ci bicycle motor.

Some accounts state that they actually got ONE powered bicycle together and running in 1903 and I accept that. But no photo or other evidence exists of it. Earl thinks maybe they never finished it.

That makes sense when you consider that the SECOND generation loop-frame Milwaukee Merkel came out in late 1902. Once the boys saw that advanced machine any dreams that their motor-bicycle project could be competitive would have flown out the window. So they dropped it as a valuable learning experience.

Yes, getting their big motor/loop frame proto done in a year's time (1903-04) was a feat. But not that daunting if they used Merkel for a chassis pattern and Ole Evinrude's motor as a base for their own. Add to that their growing enthusiasm, skills, and total access to the railshops and there it was!

I'd gladly welcome any further original evidence from the 1895 thru 1904 period. Absolutely. In fact, I have a file devoted to additional material for updating the book. New information is welcome. I don't rule anything out. But it's got to be based on evidence, not teens and later junk history which is shot full of holes and sunk like a derilect vessel....