Detroit Motorcycle

[flthead]

hey martin ..

ever think about getting into the 'ol car hobby ? what with the muscle car craze an all... the repop floors ,trunk pans ,1/4 panels interiors , stamping kits for motor vin numbers, complete bodies , truck cabs too. ect. ect. ... man you could really have some fun with those restorers , just don't tell 'em i sent ya

[aka HAWG]

martin

so in your mind, the 80% complete excelsior I started with should not be rustored, meaning the 20% of the parts missing from a bike that I suspect was repainted in the mid to late teens and cannot find anyone with extra original parts to put on this bike. I have to use repo parts to complete.

should I just take all these parts ( the 80% ) and destroy?? you know no one will want these 85ish year old repainted parts to put on there 'faked' bike, or should I just strip the paint and 'glamify' this peice of history???

I see your point about the un-truth tellers but until the machine is to be sold to a un-suspecting money thrower the fact that repo parts are used to bring a antique / vintage / classic / rare machine to life and out to the great venues the amca provide along with the indoor show promoters then leave the owners alone - just remember if nor for someone with the mind to bring these back to life then these would never get shown and admired by oh lets say millions of people.

ps - in case anyone wondered - my surviving 1967 camaro is a true RR/SS - no clone parts used, just not 100% correct

aka HAWG

[INLINE4NUT]

I still see martins point and agree,that being said I see nothing wrong with using after market parts,repop what ever you want to call them, to make a MC ROAD worthy,I really dont think any of us have a problem with this, the only thing WRONG is misrepresentation of MCs when other than OEM Parts or used and not put forth as such,NO IFs ANDs or BUTS! Look at all the old timers gone and present most of them in the hobby were GENTLEMEN and never would have talked about it, incouraged it or done such, shame on us for allowing this to fester!Some people will compromise their values for a quick buck,this isnt what made our country GREAT,I for one hope it stops right here!

I approve this message

[c.o.]

I second the motion.............

[martin]

Hawg, I think you missed my point... I don't have a problem with repop if it is represented as such. I have a couple of bikes that I had to use a few repro parts because I couldn't find originals. But I will never represent as original parts, unlike some others (lonnie isam jr and others) that want to fatten their wallet.

[aka HAWG]

martin

I was discussing the mike terry bike with a friend this afternoon ( and know now the true story ) and a question arose- why do you not tell us who the member was that mi-represented your purchase and who the repoper was??? you seem to have no problem in listing others you deem to be liars

and as I said previous - up until the persons go to sell the machine and the new owners takes ownership there should be no need to point out if the bike is fake or not.

20 years ago I restored a military 45 harley that I purchased as a basket minus the baskets, spent about a year on it making it look 50 years old - sans barn fresh. I never told anyone it was barn fresh, but got alot of folks telling me not to restore, after this comment I would always tell them it was restored, just to look 50 years old. I did not do it to fool anyone - does this make me a liar too, and now with my excelsior, I plan to leave it as found condition rusting the new parts, do I have to interupt everyone to point out the fact some is repo??? or let them think what they want???

aka HAWG

[martin]

The guy that I bought the repro bike from is dead, six feet under, pushing up daisies. Not much point of speaking ill of him now. Believe me, if he were still alive, I would roast his a$$ right here, right now.

I think what you are doing with your bikes is just fine, with the premise that if you go to sell it and the potential buyer asks, then it should be disclosed what is repro. The problem I have with the Mike Teri bike is that he was trying to sell the bike and representing it as all original. He sent the "before" photo to myself and another guy, manufacturing a history. Obviously a lie to profit from. Same thing jurasic does, but much different than someone building a bike for themselves and letting people think what they want. Now if they ask, the honest thing to do would be to fess up what it is.

[martin]

Originally posted by Ohio-Rider
One last thing.
Martin, I have a lot of family in the city of Detroit and your use of the word “Detoilet” seemed unnecessary. If you have a problem with the owner of this machine there is no need to defame an entire city because of it. -Steve

The following report from the AP is why I call it Detoilet. It is a hell hole. I am not defaming it... they are doing it themselves!

DETROIT — In another blow to the Motor City's tarnished image, Detroit pushed past St. Louis to become the nation's most dangerous city, according to a private research group's controversial analysis, released Sunday, of annual FBI crime statistics.

[Barry Brown]

From a gearhead's perspective ( and aren't we all here of that ilk? ) DETROIT is Mecca, one of the most historically significant cities on the planet, the River Rouge stacks belching black made America, remember Bob Seeger's chant " when we were making Thunderbirds" The present urban squalour only adds character . Greenfield Village was Henry's greatest legacy and the best museum anywhere. Canadians love Detroit!

[Pete Gagan]

Gentlemen:
Particularly you, martin. The AMCA forum is no place to defame fellow AMCA members and their bikes or creations. If you feel that strongly about it, and have personally been taken advantage of in some way, contact Peter Heintz, our "better business" officer, or his 2008 replacement, who will be named early in the new year.

[Pete Gagan]

To continue, restoration of any kind involves reproduction, even if it is just finish such as plating or plating. If that Detroit weren't mostly reproduced, for example, its history would be lost.
Pete Gagan, president, AMCA

[HarleyCreation]

I agree with Pete that defaming other club members by name is not a good thing.

But I also think that the controversial discussion of original vs. repop and the related honesty factor about how bikes are represented is an important and necessary subject that needs to be hashed out as the repro phenomenon is only going to grow in future.

When you read this and other related threads there has been compromise and moving towards consensus in spite of sometimes harsh words. I know that I have modified my viewpoint on the subject but still believe that "honesty is the best policy."

[INLINE4NUT]

I agree with our President that defaming anyone in this club or else where is wrong,but I also think the truth should be told and if someone has this info and can prove it,I see nothing wrong with exposing the culprit!!!!
I hope Im not reading to much into your post,it almost sounds like your advocating restriction of FREE SPEECH, I should hope not!!!
As far as Detriot,it is run down abit but so are the rest of our BIG cities and I still love to go to "The Motor City"one of our treasures for sure !
Any subject of this nature is sure to bring about heated debate,this is healthy as HC pointed out,and why single out one person,I may not agree with everyone all the time but I respect their right to voice their opinion,right or wrong !
I approve this message
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO EACH and Everyone!

[Ohio-Rider]

I still have a bunch of photos left of different bikes that I took the same day as I took the photo of the “Detroit”. Don’t worry I’m not going to post any more of them.

Guy’s I want to repeat what I said in my last post 2 weeks ago. The museum had a 3ft. by 2ft place card in-front of every machine which described in brief detail the year, the owner, the engine size, ect. ect… of the motorcycle. I have seen that card for the “Detroit Cycle” with my own eyes, and it clearly states that it is a REPRODUCTION of a 1910 Detroit Cycle. Since I’m the idiot that started this mess of a thread, I felt that I owed the owner of that wonderful machine at least this much to inform everyone that it was NOT misrepresented.

Seems to me that this subject sets off a fire a few times a year around here. Perhaps our web-master could create a special place on which this discussion could continue amongst the interested parties. Maybe it could be called something like, “Buyer Beware”.

Excuse me while I go back a page or two. I just got to see that dead horse again. Now that there was funny. -Steve

[partshunt]

Maybe the webmaster mite name it the "GRENADE ZONE"....its been fun just watchin all this from my foxhole, ha ha.......Joe