clear gel in carb bowl?

[mmoore]

Howard cotton is right about needing a higher compression ratio so it may not fire in a old flathead but some of us still like 9.5 and higher . thats when you get the power . one interesting thing I found in my 34 flathead book is they reccomend a 50% gas and 50% benzoil mix for fuel then. this is the factory book that said it so I will never try alchy in it

[Perry Ruiter]

Interesting 50/50 mix. That's the same mix Excelsior recommended (circa 1927/28) for the Super Sport Super/X. Here's a quote from the owner's handbook:

The very best fuel we have found for the high compression Super Sport is a combination of half aviation gasoline and half 90% pure "Waterclear" Benzol.

It goes on to admonish the reader that it must be 90% pure and not the inferior Benzol sold at filling stations ... Perry

[AdminGuy]

Perry - What is the comp ratio of the SS-SEx?

[Perry Ruiter]

I have no idea what the compression ratio is but the Super Sport was shipped with two sets of pistons (see attached scan). You were expected to run the 50/50 mix when you put in the high compression ones. To facilitate swapping, the piston rings are in the same location on the high and low compression pistons. The Super Sport was quite a different machine than the regular Super ... Perry

[mmoore]

thats kind of funny cause there is no way my flat could be considered high comp. its a h-d 34 c model. one good burrito and I have better compression. I wonder if they were having fuel quality problems then also?

[23JDCA 808]

The old octane ratings were pretty low. I remember a picture from an old Model T manual that showed the timing marks at the base of the distributor (it had a distributor? maybe a Model A.) Anyway, the octane numbers printed there were like 40 or 50. ...bill

[rousseau]

A few days ago ,one of the nightly news channels had a short segment about alternative fuels.
I missed most of it ,but did hear them say that E85 is available at less than 1% of stations nation wide.

[mmoore]

E85 is pretty much only found in illinois,iowa,wisconsin and minnasota or very close to these states. not much demand in other states and some resistance in others. since it does not get transported by pipe it goes by truck so it is cost prohibitive to transport it much further. I think iowa has about 100 pumps now and more every day. a lot of cars have stickers on the gas door that tell them they can use it. a lot more than most people realize.

[schmittm]

I thought this might be an interesting observation to add to the original subject of this thread.

I just returned from the antique Studebaker meet in South Bend Indiana. A good friend of mine recently finished restoring a 1947 Studebaker pickup, all original and nearly perfect, it scored 391 out of 400. Back to the story; he drove the truck to South Bend from Wisconsin, drove it around town all week, in the parade, on the tour to Michigan City, etc, etc, absolutely no problems. On the return trip to Wisconsin he encountered the usual delays on the toll road around Chicago, lots of idle time, summer heat, etc, still running perfect, no problems.

When he got into Wisconsin and stopped for fuel, he made it 5 miles down the road and it stopped dead, fuel filter and carb bowl were full of "gel". He did not put any kind of sealer in the tank when he restored it.

So, my thoughts on this are that the only thing he changed was the type of fuel he added to whatever was in the tank. The gel may be a result of mixing different types of fuel, a component in one brand may act as a catalyst and cause a reaction with something in another brand of fuel resulting in the gel formation. It may not be a problem using one or the other, its mixing the 2 together that triggers the reaction.

I guess the lesson here (maybe) is to find a fuel that works and stick with it.

IMHO

mike

[AdminGuy]

Thanks Mike. Definately part of the solution.

[23JDCA 808]

Originally posted by schmittm
When he got into Wisconsin and stopped for fuel, he made it 5 miles down the road and it stopped dead, fuel filter and carb bowl were full of "gel". He did not put any kind of sealer in the tank when he restored it.

Gelled gasoline? Napalm. The conquered lands during WW II (Russia?) used this trick when refueling the Germans. There was something they could add to the fuel that would cause it to gel up ...way down the road. ...bill

[T. Cotten]

Back to gel

Good lead, Bill!

If it turns out to be the same compound, it will have been a criminal act.

I have not witnessed any carb bowl gels myself, yet.
Anybody who does, please collect some on a glass plate to observe it dry.

I watched POR-15 'gel' immediately, while, on the other hand, there are machines in Illinois running P4gas on POR-15 with no problem.
This is a complex matter.

Gels in nature are usually polysaccharides: long chains of simple sugars, much like cellulose in wood.
The only polysaccharide that immediately comes to mind to be instrumental in oil production is xanthan gum (cabbage slime used also in salad dressings), which is forced into rock layers to push the last remaining oil out of deposits.

But certainly it would be separated or destroyed by the cracking process..?

....Cotten

[23JDCA 808]

From Wikipedia ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm

"Napalm is any of a number of flammable liquids used in warfare, often jellied gasoline. Napalm is actually the thickener in such liquids, which when mixed with gasoline makes a sticky incendiary gel. Developed by the U.S. in World War II by a team of Harvard chemists led by Louis Fieser, its name is a portmanteau of the names of its original ingredients, coprecipitated aluminum salts of naphthenic and palmitic acids.

Modern napalm is composed primarily of benzene and polystyrene, and is known as napalm-B."

It could be a lot of things; I favor the 'witches-brew' theory. Too many things in there at the bottom of the storage tanks with too many additives required by the Feds. Then I read that E85 is too corrosive to be piped.

[Paps]

I can't confirm what I am about to say. It is only a rumor I heard several years ago, about the time convertors started showing up in automotive exhaust systems. This would have taken a well developed plan to materialize such a solution. Combined and joint efforts between government agencies, such as federal and state epa, along with manufacturing in all aspects would have to fall into sync with one another. Some law making would need placed into position also. For what it is worth, here goes... Manufacturing was paying more than they liked in the disposal of waste chemicals. These waste chemicals were pumped into deep holes drilled into the earth. A less expensive method, less expensive for the manufacturers that is, was developed in order to dispose of those waste chemicals. The convertor on automotive emission systems was the perfect place to get rid of those waste chemicals. The consumer would eat the costs. Each convertor would dispose of a small percentage of waste chemicals. Combined with the 100s of thousands of vehicles equiped with those convertors, the majority of waste chemicals would be disposed of. Disposed of through fuel, as fuel additives and blends. My thoughts on this rumor ? I remember well, the smell, exhaust fumes, used to put out. They didn't smell anything like todays blends. Rumor or speculation, it still is an interesting observation at the least. For what it is worth..if anything.. Paps

[T. Cotten]

Paps!

One hole in this conspiracy theory is that catalytic converters are easily ruined by contaminants. That's why valuable ZDDP has been removed from motor oils.

But illegal dumping of waste solvents into fuel reserves is still a very real concern, whether it happens at the pipeline terminals, truckstop parking lot, or your local qwickymart underground tank.

I heard that disposal fees could be as high as $1500 a barrel for some solvents, and that was years ago. It would be a lot cheaper to bribe a convenience store employee!

My state (IL) tests fuels for octane rating only.

....Cotten