Otis Chandler "1907" Harley in Fall Issue

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Tommo
The I beam forged fork was fitted to late 1929 JDH's and have enough small differences that make them a fork that is, for want of a better phrase, a one year only item. If you have a copy of the Dealers supplement leaflet that covers the 1929 JDH models you will find them there. No doubt they can be retro fitted but they were intended for the 1929 JDH's. I have two sets of these forks and almost none of the parts interchange with the VL forks.
Tommo

Very interesting info. This I-beam "JDH" fork appears to be a unique fork.

I have a Two-Cam brochure here. It's undated but appears to be early as it says the "NEW" Two Cam Twin. It shows the regular JD type fork on it. Don't think I've ever seen the 1929 JDH dealers supplement leaflet.

Since I also know who has an original JDH frame and fork, I'll have to check and see what style fork is on that thing. Offhand I can't remember.

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Earl
So here we have an example of a later part being supplied as a replacement part for an earlier part replacement request.

Hmmmm.........

Why does that make so much sense??

Because Harley was in the business of selling MOTORCYCLES !!!

Their main business WASN'T in selling parts !!

Now go back to 1910 or 1912 for a minute with me......

A person has an accident with their machine and they bust something up. Let's say they need a gas tank or a front fork for their 1907 model motorcycle.

What do you think they got?

All the 1907 tanks and forks are gone......
How about a replacement part that functioned properly so that they could get back on the road.

Does that make sense?

So they might have been sold a 1908 model gas tank, or a 1909 model fork,......because that's what HD had on the shelf, and it would work.

Hmmmm.....

And guys 100 years later would be discussing how those parts got on those machines.

The machine functioned properly, but it wasn't a 100 percent exact replacement part. It was Factory authentic, but not a 1907 part. It's not how it left the Factory.

If that machine would be entered for judging at one of our meets today, how do you think it would or should be judged?

Another thing.

Wasn't Harley's first spare parts catalog issued in 1909? Did it even cover the 1908 models? If so, how were they covered? Did they carry any major replacement parts for the 1905 thru 1908 bikes or were the 1908 and earlier models instantly made obsolete when the totally new 1909 job came out?

I gotta look that up...

Maybe in 1909 and afterwards, if you needed a replacement fork for your 1908 model, all you could only buy from Harley was a 1909 model fork.

Where's that 1909 parts book?

(Looking around at vast jumble.)

[Tommo]

As far as we are aware on this side of the ditch the I beam forks were used to solve the problem of the front brake anchor bending the fork leg on the more powerful models.

I know of at least six sets of these forks in N.Z. and although the dealers supplement, mentioned in my previous reply, states the forks were for JDH models it is doubtful that many, if any, JDH's ever came to N.Z. due to the "Great Depression" and the high tariff's placed on American imports at that time. It's more likely they left the factory on late 1929 JD's to help solve the brake anchor problem.

The front brake introduced in 1928 had 3 modifications that I know of between it's introduction in 1928 and the finish of the J's in 1929.
The early 1928 front brake anchor was U shaped and brazed to the fork leg and under severe braking these anchors were known to bend the fork leg and in the worst cases rip off completely.
In late 1928 or early 1929 a modified brake anchor was fitted that wrapped completely around the fork leg at the upper portion of the brake anchor. This solved the problem of it ripping off but it still bent the forks under severe braking conditions, especially with a sidecar fitted.
The I beam was the last effort made to try and solve the problem and it seems the factory only fitted it to the higher powered models of the range as there is no evidence, as far as I am aware, of a standard J ever leaving the factory with I beam forks.

The point of all this is to illustrate that 3 changes were made in a very short time to try and solve a problem and it would be a very brave person who could say exactly at what point in production the latter two of these modifications were introduced. Is a 1928 with the modified anchor wrong or did the first type fail and was the 2nd type fitted as a warranty claim by the factory. Did someone see the I beam fork and get it fitted to their new J before it was delivered and in doing so is that bike wrong today because it is fitted with I beam forks.

I think this thread is fantastic and up until now I have just read and learned as I had nothing to contribute but I do consider I know a small bit about 1916 to 1929 models and do think we must all realise that we don't know it all, we can still learn no matter how old we are and sensible discussion will help to solve some of the questions posed in this thread. Whether a definitive answer to Harleys early history is possible, who knows, but I do agree a lot of what the rumour mill has fed us in the past is pretty murky.

Tommo

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Tommo
As far as we are aware on this side of the ditch the I beam forks were used to solve the problem of the front brake anchor bending the fork leg on the more powerful models.

I know of at least six sets of these forks in N.Z. and although the dealers supplement, mentioned in my previous reply, states the forks were for JDH models it is doubtful that many, if any, JDH's ever came to N.Z. due to the "Great Depression" and the high tariff's placed on American imports at that time. It's more likely they left the factory on late 1929 JD's to help solve the brake anchor problem.

The front brake introduced in 1928 had 3 modifications that I know of between it's introduction in 1928 and the finish of the J's in 1929.
The early 1928 front brake anchor was U shaped and brazed to the fork leg and under severe braking these anchors were known to bend the fork leg and in the worst cases rip off completely.
In late 1928 or early 1929 a modified brake anchor was fitted that wrapped completely around the fork leg at the upper portion of the brake anchor. This solved the problem of it ripping off but it still bent the forks under severe braking conditions, especially with a sidecar fitted.
The I beam was the last effort made to try and solve the problem and it seems the factory only fitted it to the higher powered models of the range as there is no evidence, as far as I am aware, of a standard J ever leaving the factory with I beam forks.

The point of all this is to illustrate that 3 changes were made in a very short time to try and solve a problem and it would be a very brave person who could say exactly at what point in production the latter two of these modifications were introduced. Is a 1928 with the modified anchor wrong or did the first type fail and was the 2nd type fitted as a warranty claim by the factory. Did someone see the I beam fork and get it fitted to their new J before it was delivered and in doing so is that bike wrong today because it is fitted with I beam forks.

I think this thread is fantastic and up until now I have just read and learned as I had nothing to contribute but I do consider I know a small bit about 1916 to 1929 models and do think we must all realise that we don't know it all, we can still learn no matter how old we are and sensible discussion will help to solve some of the questions posed in this thread. Whether a definitive answer to Harleys early history is possible, who knows, but I do agree a lot of what the rumour mill has fed us in the past is pretty murky.

Tommo

Good info. Thanks much!

From guys I talked to, if you really wanted something special from Harley in the old days you could usually get it. Maybe you'd have to bug your dealer and pay a few dollars more, but Harley could be very accomodating in order to sell another bike. I have even talked to guys who were allowed into the Factory the day their bike went down the assembly line so they could stand there and watch it being built.

My point being that if you really had to have the I-beam style fork on a Plain Jane "J" you probably could have wheedled one out of them. Of course that would be an exceptional case.

I checked on that JDH frame and fork that I know of. It has a tubular type fork and not the I-beam job. Too bad!

[sveger]

Harley oddities

Having followed this thread with great interest I would like to share another Scandinavian Harley oddity that I actually tried to investigate towards the factory years back without no succsess.
In Scandinavia there are to me two known JDH IOE`s that are sold new well into the thirties and hence have engine number stampings reflecting this. Out of the head I think they where 31 and 32.
One of these bikes is located in Norway and I know the owner well, this is a 61 with the tapered style cylinder finning. The engine history as far as I know, is that it was ordered as an engine only, to be used in an older Harley for racing by a well known dealer at the time. It was originally delivered with a strange racing Schebler but is now running with an ordinary DLX.
The other bike is in Denmark.
So, Harley didnt have any problem with selling the by far faster JDH to as far off as Norway even if it was banned from racing in the US to not let down the flattie.
Does any other following this thread know if there are more such thirties IOE`s around??

Sverre

[jurassic]

just trying out posting pics of 2037

[c.o.]

Great pic jurassic!

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